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+--- Thread: Jailbreaking is dying (/Thread-Jailbreaking-is-dying)
RE: Jailbreaking is dying - phyrrus9 - 11-26-2017
(11-26-2017, 08:28 PM)b1rch_b0y Wrote:(11-26-2017, 08:14 PM)phyrrus9 Wrote:(11-26-2017, 08:10 PM)b1rch_b0y Wrote: Exactly, these days the hardware on both is essentially equal so it comes down to personal preference. The only big difference nowadays is price, granted there are 1k android flagships but for the most part they're cheaper.
It's not all preference, but yes price is a big factor. Apple has gone completely off the deep end the last 2 years. It all started when they started sacrificing performance for thinness on their laptops, and consequently I refuse to buy one made after 2011.
I stick with the iPhone for two reasons though. Performance (iPhones are able to beat real computers in their benchmarks), and security. iOS is hands down the most secure operating system on the planet (out of the box), and you can make it even more secure with a little code.
Computer wise, Apple has been making hardware choices that are iffy for a long time. Which sucks especially since their build quality is SO NICE.
In terms of phones though, you're entirely correct, iOS is unparalleled in security. A big part of that is because of the tight grip that Apple keeps on it's phones and os. The fact that manufacturers can load their own software on top of stock android just increases the amount of fuck-ups that could (and do) happen. It all comes down to the freedom v. security debate.
Actually, that's not so true. Apple started out being pretty open with iOS. The first jailbreak was done just by copying ringtones and apps to the phone using the iBoot cp command. When iOS 2 came out is when Apple started to lock it down. This is when Apple introduced the App Store, and to prevent having any sort of competition they introduced code signing (which was the largest jailbreak/customizing obstacle for a very long time). Android did this as well, however there were ways to disable this feature, while those weren't present in iOS at the time. From iOS 3 up until ios 9, this was pretty locked down. Apple would allow anyone to install anything they want on their phones as long as they had a valid code signing certificate. Google did this as well, however the google certs were $30, while Apple's were $99 and not publicly advertised. Starting with iOS 10, you can get a certificate for free, and with iOS 11 you can actually install a profile containing a certificate, which allows you to install any app signed with that certificate without needing a computer. I've seen a number of third party app stores for iOS recently that use that method. Since they have a valid certificate, you don't need a jailbreak to install these apps. With iOS 11, Apple also expanded the number of entitlements that XCode can apply, these entitlements are hard coded (and signed) exceptions to the internal security of iOS. Most of these entitlements are designed for developers, and apps submitted to the App Store using them will be rejected, however they can still put these apps (with the entitlements) on third party app stores. What Apple's effectively done is allowed somebody to make Cydia that can be used without a jailbreak (really rough reference). Lastly, with iOS 10 and up, the kernel is no longer encrypted in developer builds. This means that if you have paid your $99, you can get a developer beta build (do not confuse these with the public betas, they're entirely different), and with that build you can even play around with the kernel. Apple has also been open sourcing their iOS and MacOS components since 2009. Long story short, iOS isn't as locked down as it was when Android first came out, but it's still secure.
Years ago Apple realized that these jailbreakers were going to get in no matter what they did, so they started inviting it. It was a perfect cycle, Apple would make an OS, jailbreakers would break into it and then submit a patch to Apple (they would write the fix and send it to them), Apple would then research the bug and incorporate the fix into the next release and the cycle would repeat. iOS is as secure as it is BECAUSE people had to work hard to customize it. Without the huge community of hardware engineers constantly trying to fuck with their phones, iOS would be as secure as Android.
RE: Jailbreaking is dying - Oni - 11-26-2017
I remember jailbreaking the iPhone 2/3, now people are jailbreaking the iPhone 10. It's a shame Cydia has suffered, as that's one of the sources I relied on when I used Apple products. Many technical users have swapped to Android, which may have attributed to Cydia's downfall.
(11-26-2017, 08:28 PM)b1rch_b0y Wrote: unparalleled in security. A big part of that is because of the tight grip that Apple keeps on it's phones and os.
Security through obscurity has always been bad.
RE: Jailbreaking is dying - phyrrus9 - 11-26-2017
(11-26-2017, 08:51 PM)Oni Wrote: I remember jailbreaking the iPhone 2/3, now people are jailbreaking the iPhone 10. It's a shame Cydia has suffered, as that's one of the sources I relied on when I used Apple products. Many technical users have swapped to Android, which may have attributed to Cydia's downfall.
(11-26-2017, 08:28 PM)b1rch_b0y Wrote: unparalleled in security. A big part of that is because of the tight grip that Apple keeps on it's phones and os.
Security through obscurity has always been bad.
For the most part that hasn't been what makes it secure. Most of Apple's security comes from playing cat and mouse with hackers. Sure, some things have been obscured in the past, but that's all over now. I also wouldn't call delaying releasing the source code obscurity either, most companies never release their source code. It's not a security feature, it's a copyright tactic.
RE: Jailbreaking is dying - Oni - 11-26-2017
(11-26-2017, 08:57 PM)phyrrus9 Wrote:(11-26-2017, 08:51 PM)Oni Wrote: I remember jailbreaking the iPhone 2/3, now people are jailbreaking the iPhone 10. It's a shame Cydia has suffered, as that's one of the sources I relied on when I used Apple products. Many technical users have swapped to Android, which may have attributed to Cydia's downfall.
(11-26-2017, 08:28 PM)b1rch_b0y Wrote: unparalleled in security. A big part of that is because of the tight grip that Apple keeps on it's phones and os.
Security through obscurity has always been bad.
For the most part that hasn't been what makes it secure. Most of Apple's security comes from playing cat and mouse with hackers. Sure, some things have been obscured in the past, but that's all over now. I also wouldn't call delaying releasing the source code obscurity either, most companies never release their source code. It's not a security feature, it's a copyright tactic.
I was quoting @b1rch_b0y, as he noted their security was based on obscurity (not entirely true).
RE: Jailbreaking is dying - phyrrus9 - 11-26-2017
(11-26-2017, 08:59 PM)Oni Wrote:(11-26-2017, 08:57 PM)phyrrus9 Wrote:(11-26-2017, 08:51 PM)Oni Wrote: I remember jailbreaking the iPhone 2/3, now people are jailbreaking the iPhone 10. It's a shame Cydia has suffered, as that's one of the sources I relied on when I used Apple products. Many technical users have swapped to Android, which may have attributed to Cydia's downfall.
Security through obscurity has always been bad.
For the most part that hasn't been what makes it secure. Most of Apple's security comes from playing cat and mouse with hackers. Sure, some things have been obscured in the past, but that's all over now. I also wouldn't call delaying releasing the source code obscurity either, most companies never release their source code. It's not a security feature, it's a copyright tactic.
I was quoting @b1rch_b0y, as he noted their security was based on obscurity (not entirely true).
Ah. I didn't interpret it like that. I was under the impression he meant by "tight grip" their resistance to users jailbreaking, which is more accurate than obscuring it.
RE: Jailbreaking is dying - b1rch_b0y - 11-26-2017
(11-26-2017, 08:51 PM)Oni Wrote: I remember jailbreaking the iPhone 2/3, now people are jailbreaking the iPhone 10. It's a shame Cydia has suffered, as that's one of the sources I relied on when I used Apple products. Many technical users have swapped to Android, which may have attributed to Cydia's downfall.
(11-26-2017, 08:28 PM)b1rch_b0y Wrote: unparalleled in security. A big part of that is because of the tight grip that Apple keeps on it's phones and os.
Security through obscurity has always been bad.
I should clarify. I didn't mean to imply that security through obscurity is good. What I meant is that apple has always been more resistant to jail breaking than google and android.
Apologies for the confusion.
RE: Jailbreaking is dying - Skullmeat - 11-26-2017
Its because people who were jail breaking have gone to android.
RE: Jailbreaking is dying - phyrrus9 - 11-26-2017
(11-26-2017, 10:30 PM)Skullmeat Wrote: Its because people who were jail breaking have gone to android.
I could see that being the usual go to idea but that's just not the case. The guys who were jailbreaking have moved onto other hobbies. A few of them are working on HAM stuff, a couple got hired by Apple, and at least one started their own security company.
RE: Jailbreaking is dying - mothered - 11-27-2017
It's a shame that jailbreakers have left, or starting to leave the scene due to technological advancements from Apple. Sure, the OS Is "harder" to break, but not Impossible.
On a different note but still relative In terms of breaking/cracking, this actually reminds me of an elite group of reverse engineers named "Edge" who were very active around 10 years ago. Every Symantec release of Norton, they'd circumvent It's protection and reverse engineer It. Then they simply dropped off the grid and have never been heard of since. Perhaps the software protection wasn't worth their time and effort.
EDIT: Typo.
RE: Jailbreaking is dying - phyrrus9 - 11-27-2017
(11-27-2017, 05:44 AM)mothered Wrote: It's a shame that jailbreakers have left, or starting to leave the scene due to technological advancements from Apple. Sure, the OS Is "harder" to break, but not Impossible.
On a different note but still relative In terms of breaking/cracking, this actually reminds me of an elite group of reverse engineers named "Edge" who were very active around 10 years ago. Every Symantec release of Norton, they'd circumvent It's protection and reverse engineer It. Then they simply dropped off the grid and have never been heard of since. Perhaps the software protection wasn't worth their time and effort.
EDIT: Typo.
I always love a good story of hackers just dropping off the grid. AV used to be a big deal at the dawn of the public internet, but my guess is with the expansion of the market it just became a fruitless effort. I know a few people who layer their AV.