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+----- Thread: Marketplace Vouch System (/Thread-Marketplace-Vouch-System)
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RE: Marketplace Vouch System - Double06 - 04-16-2017
(04-16-2017, 11:13 PM)Silence Wrote:(04-16-2017, 09:06 PM)Oni Wrote: Won't stop people from forging exchanges or abusing it. Also won't stop exit scammers. I feel like the reputation system as it is could address things better.
It's not supposed to stop foreign exchanges and abuse would be minimal as you could require proof to be shown. The reputation system can not, nor will it, address things better. If you look at a variety of rep logs, you can see ridiculous rep given for dumb reasons. An exit scammer will exit scam regardless, it allows people to have better faith in who they are dealing with and see who is an active seller, when the last sale was, etc.
(04-16-2017, 10:33 PM)Zajbu Wrote: Oni is right, won't stop the mindset of an exit-scammer or people who would build up their market reputations through rigged exchanges.
What about an automated scripted middleman?
Many questions come into line with such a proposition starting from logic and ending to anywhere near vulnerabilities. (Frankly might be too much work)
It's just a very vast idea thrown out there but for example: BTC > Product (exchange).
1. User X sends BTC to Sinisterly's automated middleman account with username's field address (seller to PM).
2. Bot confirms amount received with a simple blockchain verification process and sends User Z a PM with successful received funds.
3. User Z (seller) sends product to User X (buyer) (through Sinisterly PM).
4. If User X (buyer) is satisfied he can release the funds with a button.
4a. If User X (buyer) is unsatisfied he can freeze funds with a button. (freezing them for a moderator to step in and examine the situation to prevent scam).
This is just a very general brief idea of a potential idea. Feel free to add along.
That won't work as there are too many products being sold with too mang various payment methods. What about steam trades? Will they create a bot? What about for PayPal options, or Skrill, or Payza, GooglePay, Amazon Gift Cards, etc.
Fair enough wouldn't work with many platforms and mainly focus on BTC.
But taking it from the area this forum comes from BTC is quite familiar and straightforward if needed to be implemented in such a concept.
RE: Marketplace Vouch System - Silence - 04-16-2017
(04-16-2017, 11:10 AM)Popeye Wrote: Indeed, I agree with this, so more people would trust you, instead of being NOT trusted.
The thing with this, is how you start to make them trust you.
But overall, I agree with it.
You could start getting positive vouches by offering vouch copies to staff to build them. Then all of the trades would accumulate in a single area where you can see all deals done and their outcomes.
(04-16-2017, 11:42 PM)Zajbu Wrote:(04-16-2017, 11:13 PM)Silence Wrote:(04-16-2017, 09:06 PM)Oni Wrote: Won't stop people from forging exchanges or abusing it. Also won't stop exit scammers. I feel like the reputation system as it is could address things better.
It's not supposed to stop foreign exchanges and abuse would be minimal as you could require proof to be shown. The reputation system can not, nor will it, address things better. If you look at a variety of rep logs, you can see ridiculous rep given for dumb reasons. An exit scammer will exit scam regardless, it allows people to have better faith in who they are dealing with and see who is an active seller, when the last sale was, etc.
(04-16-2017, 10:33 PM)Zajbu Wrote: Oni is right, won't stop the mindset of an exit-scammer or people who would build up their market reputations through rigged exchanges.
What about an automated scripted middleman?
Many questions come into line with such a proposition starting from logic and ending to anywhere near vulnerabilities. (Frankly might be too much work)
It's just a very vast idea thrown out there but for example: BTC > Product (exchange).
1. User X sends BTC to Sinisterly's automated middleman account with username's field address (seller to PM).
2. Bot confirms amount received with a simple blockchain verification process and sends User Z a PM with successful received funds.
3. User Z (seller) sends product to User X (buyer) (through Sinisterly PM).
4. If User X (buyer) is satisfied he can release the funds with a button.
4a. If User X (buyer) is unsatisfied he can freeze funds with a button. (freezing them for a moderator to step in and examine the situation to prevent scam).
This is just a very general brief idea of a potential idea. Feel free to add along.
That won't work as there are too many products being sold with too mang various payment methods. What about steam trades? Will they create a bot? What about for PayPal options, or Skrill, or Payza, GooglePay, Amazon Gift Cards, etc.
Fair enough wouldn't work with many platforms and mainly focus on BTC.
But taking it from the area this forum comes from BTC is quite familiar and straightforward if needed to be implemented in such a concept.
The area this forum is familiar with also incorporates PayPal, Google Pay, Skrill, Stripe and a variety of other methods. It's a case to case basis. How would you go about implementing this with physical products? Or licenses? Escrow systems are, in my opinion, only work properly if it's a currency exchange.
The vouch system will be straightforward. You say what you bought, sold or traded, provide proof, trek your experience. Then posts in the marketplace will have something like
4 | 1
in a marketplace postbit. ( Positive trades | Negative trades )
RE: Marketplace Vouch System - Double06 - 04-17-2017
(04-16-2017, 11:49 PM)Silence Wrote:(04-16-2017, 11:10 AM)Popeye Wrote: Indeed, I agree with this, so more people would trust you, instead of being NOT trusted.
The thing with this, is how you start to make them trust you.
But overall, I agree with it.
You could start getting positive vouches by offering vouch copies to staff to build them. Then all of the trades would accumulate in a single area where you can see all deals done and their outcomes.
(04-16-2017, 11:42 PM)Zajbu Wrote:(04-16-2017, 11:13 PM)Silence Wrote: It's not supposed to stop foreign exchanges and abuse would be minimal as you could require proof to be shown. The reputation system can not, nor will it, address things better. If you look at a variety of rep logs, you can see ridiculous rep given for dumb reasons. An exit scammer will exit scam regardless, it allows people to have better faith in who they are dealing with and see who is an active seller, when the last sale was, etc.
That won't work as there are too many products being sold with too mang various payment methods. What about steam trades? Will they create a bot? What about for PayPal options, or Skrill, or Payza, GooglePay, Amazon Gift Cards, etc.
Fair enough wouldn't work with many platforms and mainly focus on BTC.
But taking it from the area this forum comes from BTC is quite familiar and straightforward if needed to be implemented in such a concept.
The area this forum is familiar with also incorporates PayPal, Google Pay, Skrill, Stripe and a variety of other methods. It's a case to case basis. How would you go about implementing this with physical products? Or licenses? Escrow systems are, in my opinion, only work properly if it's a currency exchange.
The vouch system will be straightforward. You say what you bought, sold or traded, provide proof, trek your experience. Then posts in the marketplace will have something like
4 | 1
in a marketplace postbit. ( Positive trades | Negative trades )
Doesn't the reputation system kind of act like the vouch system at the same time?
The vouch system is a good idea, but still does not prevail some logic issues such as what value apply's for a successful trade to prevent fraud.
For example, someone registers, starts selling third-party premium accounts at $0.20 a piece and acquires +positive vouches.
Three months later say he has 12 +positive trade | 0 -negative trades ; This doesn't stop him/her if need be to just scam a user.
My point is that you can't really put a label on what a successful tangible/intangible good or service is and at what value ($0.01 - ($1000) it stands at.
Like I said, I agree with your vouch system idea but it can be abused too, just like everything else.
RE: Marketplace Vouch System - Lipa - 04-17-2017
I like this concept. I agree it should be added.
RE: Marketplace Vouch System - Jiggly - 04-17-2017
I see you arguments for it. However, it seems like a fair amount of input, for something that can also be abused.
While I also understand your point about it potentially boosting the marketplace, I doubt that would happen in reality on SL. However, I am open to be proven wrong there. If there are other forums similar to SL and it's priorities, that didn't have this before, then implemented it and found an increase in the marketplace activity after implementation, I'd be curious to know about it.
RE: Marketplace Vouch System - Silence - 04-17-2017
(04-17-2017, 12:01 AM)Zajbu Wrote: SNIP
Scroll through some of the reputations and see the reasonings. The reset did practically nothing. If you look you will see a lot of people getting rep from friends or merely because they gave someone a laugh. If anything, it is less abusable than the reputation system as EzTrader allows you to link the thread it was purchased from, give a brief description as well as a detailed description of the deal. We could also couple it with proof being required in the detailed description via screenshots, or the vouch could be nulled by staff. You said what if they sell cheap things to quickly accumulate vouches, but the flaw is that it is much easier to get reputation. I got about 30+ rep merely because I said something in the discord chat, do you think that isn't abusable or easy to get reputation?
(04-17-2017, 01:40 AM)Jiggly Wrote: SNIP
Most forums implement something like this when starting out or they have something to help with it. Even if it doesn't dramatically boost the marketplacr activity, it allows for a "Reputation System" strictly for trades. Refer to my reply to the previous user above.
ie. MPGH's Vouch Thread sub-section; LF's Vouch System; NBB's Vouch System; SEnet's Vouch System. When @Noob was starting his [failed] website that prioritized in Warranty Abuse, that was one of the features a vast majority of members specifically requested before posting in marketplaces. I understand it may be more work put on for the staff, however it would only take a moment to setup and configure; you could even configure it so that the Vouches would ONLY show in the marketplace.
I would like someone to give me a reason as to why this SHOULDN'T be implemented - that I have not already addressed or countered. The forum may not be active in the marketplace, but there should still be a separate system for trades than rep, activity will likely pick up if people can see sellers and buyers are more trusted.
RE: Marketplace Vouch System - mothered - 04-17-2017
Just a suggestion, there's a lot of fors and against/ pros and cons from members posted thus far.
Perhaps If you create a Poll, we can get a better and more accurate Insight as to the number of those who support this.
RE: Marketplace Vouch System - Silence - 04-17-2017
(04-17-2017, 12:16 PM)mothered Wrote: Just a suggestion, there's a lot of fors and against/ pros and cons from members posted thus far.
Perhaps If you create a Poll, we can get a better and more accurate Insight as to the number of those who support this.
There's really no legitimate cons.
But I'll try to edit it with a poll.
RE: Marketplace Vouch System - Cyber Warrior - 04-17-2017
This might actually prevent some scammers. Quite interesting suggestion, and I support the idea. Already made plugin, easy to implement, so we should give it a chance.
RE: Marketplace Vouch System - mothered - 04-18-2017
(04-17-2017, 04:32 PM)Silence Wrote: There's really no legitimate cons.
But I'll try to edit it with a poll.
As with everything, given there's different viewpoints and opinions, there's always cons to some degree.
Thanks for taking my post under advisement.