[Dismas]

On the other hand, the leader of Ukraine is actually willing to go out and fight alongside his infantrymen, a task not undertaken by some of history's greatest leaders. Generals, sure. But not presidents or monarchs of the past.

An attitude lost to time, in a way. History shows only a handful of leaders are willing to lead from the front. Some of them being Caesar, Alexander the Great, and George Washington.

[imgr8ness]

On the other hand, the leader of Ukraine is actually willing to go out and fight alongside his infantrymen, a task not undertaken by some of history's greatest leaders. Generals, sure. But not presidents or monarchs of the past.

An attitude lost to time, in a way. History shows only a handful of leaders are willing to lead from the front. Some of them being Caesar, Alexander the Great, and George Washington.

The difference is, Zelensky does it because he is reckless and stupid.

[ConcernedCitizen]

The difference is, Zelensky does it because he is reckless and stupid.

That's not to say every leader should take a military approach to leading, but it is admirable. No leader should be shotgunning and eating doors for a day job.

[Boudica]

'To dismiss all information because you can't verify it face to face, would make one very naive. This would mean you couldn't form any viewpoint as you have literally no information, because you trust no information.'

I think you misunderstand me, I'm not outright dismissing any information, however I'm not outright believing it either. Usually the truth sits somewhere in the middle.

From my perspective, you are making the claim that Russia is deliberately bombing or shelling Ukrainian citizens. Russia says it isn't. From your statements, its clear you believe Russia is and the only information you have to go on is what the western media tells you.
So that is where I came in to merely make the point that you are acting with bias. Whatever you may think of Russia, you still should not undermine your own principles of truth just because you oppose someone or something.

'I truly believe the Western world would not have taken the stance of claiming war crimes, if there were no way to substantiate those claims.'

That basis of that view can only be held if western governments always told the truth and surely even you admit no government is ever completely honest. That being said, my point here is that governments lie to further their own agenda. When there are wars, the first casualty is truth, you've probably heard that phrase before.

'...you couldn't form any viewpoint as you have literally no information, because you trust no information.'

I would say that is quite accurate. But to clarify, I form a viewpoint cautiously based on currently known information but I am always questioning and if new information comes to light then I revise my viewpoint.

'...your personal stance isn't in favour of either side, but you choose to believe Russia isn't targeting civilians?'

Yes of course. No one has incontrovertible proof. All we have is a lot of western media writing reports and posting sad pictures from a war. That in itself is not proof of the actual charges they levy against Russia and holds about as much weight as gossip.

All we know for sure is that Russia did in fact invade Ukraine. That is all. The reasons have been made clear by Putin so its just a matter of whether or not you agree with those reasons.

And one final point I'd like to make, I find it incredibly hypocritical of the US and the western world in general to call Putin a war criminal when the US has killed countless civilians in the middle east in illegal wars.

Unfortunately the general public doesn't seem capable of such introspection and reflection.

See, here you've assumed I use only western media to make my decisions. I thought I made it obvious that I am as skeptical as anyone about what the media shows or doesn't show.
Of course, that doesn't mean I have no bias. We're human and all subject to bias.

"That basis of that view can only be held if western governments always told the truth and surely even you admit no government is ever completely honest. That being said, my point here is that governments lie to further their own agenda. When there are wars, the first casualty is truth, you've probably heard that phrase before."
Governments do lie. And do have their own agendas. However, when there are governments from outside the western world also calling Putin a War Criminal... that's a lot of agendas that are suddenly aligning a little too perfectly for it to be merely lies and agendas from the west. The scale of global response to this is too large for it to be solely western agenda or propaganda.

Sometimes the simpler answer, is the most likely: Putin has committed war crimes.
I have also heard the Ukraine may have committed war crimes.

"Yes of course. No one has incontrovertible proof. All we have is a lot of western media writing reports and posting sad pictures from a war. That in itself is not proof of the actual charges they levy against Russia and holds about as much weight as gossip.

All we know for sure is that Russia did in fact invade Ukraine. That is all. The reasons have been made clear by Putin so its just a matter of whether or not you agree with those reasons.

And one final point I'd like to make, I find it incredibly hypocritical of the US and the western world in general to call Putin a war criminal when the US has killed countless civilians in the middle east in illegal wars."
That's fair. I feel similarly in that my viewpoint will change based on new evidence/information coming to light.

"Unfortunately the general public doesn't seem capable of such introspection and reflection."
Actually, this is seriously untrue. There has been many a protest from general public about western involvement and conduct in those wars. I'd like to believe you'd be pleasantly surprised by how many of the general public are against those wars.

'Governments do lie. And do have their own agendas. However, when there are governments from outside the western world also calling Putin a War Criminal... that's a lot of agendas that are suddenly aligning a little too perfectly for it to be merely lies and agendas from the west.'

I disagree. It would only seem to be 'too perfect' for many countries agenda's to align but that is only a rudimentary assessment, you need to look deeper as its quite easy to see why that would be the case. Not many countries in this world are truly independent, smaller or less powerful countries align themselves with more powerful countries for self-preservation, protection from others, financial benefits etc.
So, when you take those points into account, its easy to see why many countries would side with the US. Its not a simple equation of 'Russia is evil and must be crushed', there are many considerations at play for many countries.
For example, Hungary is clearly not taking Ukraines side because they have to think about the stability of their own country. A quote from a news story:

'...Hungarian Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto said that his country would not support anti-Russia sanctions which would cause harm to its own interests, including the penalties targeting Russian gas and oil. He also reiterated that Hungary was against any proposals involving sending NATO soldiers to Ukraine or creating a no-fly zone over the country, explaining that such actions would raise the risk of a larger-scale war.
Though the Hungarian government has condemned Moscow’s attack on Ukraine and supported some sanctions, it has consistently defended its wish to “stay out” of the conflict and has refused to join other countries in sending weapons to Ukraine.' (https://www.rt.com/russia/552496-ukraine...criticism/)

'There has been many a protest from general public about western involvement and conduct in those wars.'

Sure, there is always a handful of people who protest but it doesn't reflect the broader society, they are usually just the loudest mouths.

'I feel similarly in that my viewpoint will change based on new evidence/information coming to light.'

Unfortunately, we are at the mercy of the various news outlets, none of which can be relied upon to tell the whole truth or represent it accurately. Even if we were on the ground in Ukraine, you would still not be able to form an accurate picture of what is going on.
We could be fed an entire narrative that is completely fictitious but we would never truly know. Ever seen the movie 'Wag the Dog'? In it, the President is caught in a controversial situation so to deflect from that, his staff contacts a Hollywood producer and gets him to create a fictional war in Albania, complete with a theme song and fake film footage of a sympathy arousing orphan.

Its not about believing everything Russia says, its about NOT believing everything the US says. Just look at all the lies, death and destruction that the US has wrought upon the world just in the last few decades.

I think we can all feel sympathy for innocent civilians being harmed or killed, but it is this very human emotion that is used against us to fabricate consent to war.

To clarify, you would of heard news stories that Russia bombed a hospital in Mariupol but do you really believe that Russia would bomb a civilian hospital for no reason other than to kill women and babies? Come on, this isn't a Hollywood movie, the world is not black and white, good vs evil.
If you ask Ukraine, they say Russia is evil and deliberately killed women and children then sat back laughing maniacally while stroking their evil cat.
But if you ask Russia, they say that the hospital building had for days been under the control of ultra-radical Ukrainian forces.

What do you think is more likely? Even the pictures of injured women and even a pregnant woman on a stretcher could of been staged. Remember, its a war and if you are willing to kill the enemy, then you wouldn't even hesitate to lie about them.

Ever heard the euphemism 'Hearts and minds'? That is exactly what the media is trying to do, win the hearts and minds of the general public so that politicians can get the support they need to enter or continue wars. Don't fall for it.

As I've said before, I don't agree with the war. It's a reality, but that doesn't mean I have to like it! xD

This is all possible. My argument is that lies, propaganda and misinformation can come from all sides. No singular person knows the whole truth. However, I hope this is over sooner, rather than later.

My only real feeling is that, I don't like war, and I do like freedom to choose. If Ukrainians (not their government, the people) genuinely want to be part of Russian culture, then I think they should be. If they want to be independent of Russia, I think they should be. People should be free to choose their own fate, wherever possible, regardless of whether the west agrees or disagrees with their decision. However, reality is never that simple.

[WouldsOtton]

It's all very scary, any fighting can have a lot of victims...

[scargo]

i hope russia doesn't go nuke there, putin is kinda scary

[smithlinda1502]

It's really a serious problem.

[botgros]

Russia has clearly demonstrated to the world the weakness of its army, which was considered the second after the U.S., now it is ridiculous to even talk about it. I remember when everyone predicted the capture of Kyiv in 72 hours. The situation repeats itself, that in Chechnya they suffered inadequate losses, that in Ukraine, where their losses break the records of other conflicts since World War II. The Ukrainians have already reported 40,000 killed Russian soldiers, as well as Kadyrovites, Buryats, conscripts from the DNR and LNR, Syria, etc. They shout that they are fighting against the Nazis, but also say that the Jews are the most important anti-Semites and call modern Germans Nazis, they are cannibals, especially some Kadyrovtsy who castrate and kill prisoners or the Rusich regiment, whose commander boasted that he liked killing people and also described how smells good a burnt corpse and also claims to be a Nazi. These are the kind of people who fight for the second army of the world.

---

It is also our fault, because we did not care that one nuclear power has had an unstable dictator in power for 23 years.

[Norman56]

I want it to be over already.

[VanillaMix]

I really hope the war will completely stop before it gets worse..