[imgr8ness]

Austria, Czechoslovakia... Crimea, Ukraine. I can see why people make the comparison. The Soviet Union lost its erection (and remaining territories) in 1991. Russia is attempting to annex a territory that claimed independence almost 30 years ago.

I disagree, I don't think Putin wants to annex Ukraine at all, he simply doesn't want them joining NATO. Easy to understand since Ukraine is essentially a significant buffer between all of the western European countries who are NATO members. Just look at the NATO members on the world map, it looks like NATO is slowly moving to the east and I would be cagey too if my enemy was doing that.

Russia's attack on the Ukraine is sending a message to NATO but more importantly to the US that any further movements to the east are not acceptable.

Putin has said Ukraine will retain its independance and I believe he means that. However, I also believe that a situation could arise which would necessitate Putin actually retaining control of Ukraine but this would be in direct response to NATO or US actions, so it remains to be seen how this ends.

Ukraine needs to stay independent, at least maintain the appearance of being as such, so that both Russian and NATO can co-exist without conflict.

The US has retreated from Afghanistan though, and if follow history then you'll see the US always has a mortal enemy to focus on and this time it may actually be Russia.

You keep mentioning the US, but pretty much every other country is in opposition to the Russian occupation. Acknowledging a country's independence includes allowing them to decide who they form alliances with. Ukraine wasn't being considered for NATO, yet Putin felt threatened? He doesn't want them to be independent, he wants them to be a puppet state (at the very least).

Of course, an independent country should be able to decide who they form alliances with, in principal. However, as countries such as Ukraine share its border with others, it would be naive to think their actions have no impact on those around them. No country exists in a vacuum, many decisions a country makes can have massive ramifications for those around them.

Ukraine being where it is and its status as independent actually puts it at risk. I liken it to a new prison inmate who has no gang affiliations, entering a prison and being targeted by everyone until he joins a gang. In this instance, Ukraine is a new prison inmate facing the choice of joining either the US' gang (NATO) or Russia's.

So both the US and Russia want control of Ukraine, albeit without the obvious appearance of such. Both the US and Russia's method of control would be to install a puppet government, the only difference being that Russia would ideally do it surruptitiously by making sure it gets its agents into the top jobs and the US would do it by getting Ukraine to join NATO.

Ukraine wasn't being considered for NATO? Depends what you mean by 'considered'. At a NATO summit in Bucharest, 2008, it was stated 'NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO. Both nations have made valuable contributions to Alliance operations.' I'm too new here to post links but do a google search with that phrase and you will get a result from the NATO site.

While Ukraine is still not a member currently, owing primarily to the upheaval since 2014, its clear that it is only a matter of time until it happens. Putin knows this, we all do.

When NATO made that statement in 2008, Putin didn't invade Ukraine. Its been 14 years since that was said so you have to ask the question, why would Putin decide to invade now? Clearly, he must have seen something coming with regards to Ukraine's NATO aspirations. Remember, we only know what is reported in the news or written in opinion pieces, we are not privy to the highly classified intelligence from either country so we will never truly know what is going on behind the scenes.

All I can say is this, my perspective is that this is not about 'right' or 'wrong', both the US and Russia want the same thing for the same reasons and in that regard, they are two sides of the same coin.

[Boudica]

I disagree, I don't think Putin wants to annex Ukraine at all, he simply doesn't want them joining NATO. Easy to understand since Ukraine is essentially a significant buffer between all of the western European countries who are NATO members. Just look at the NATO members on the world map, it looks like NATO is slowly moving to the east and I would be cagey too if my enemy was doing that.

Russia's attack on the Ukraine is sending a message to NATO but more importantly to the US that any further movements to the east are not acceptable.

Putin has said Ukraine will retain its independance and I believe he means that. However, I also believe that a situation could arise which would necessitate Putin actually retaining control of Ukraine but this would be in direct response to NATO or US actions, so it remains to be seen how this ends.

Ukraine needs to stay independent, at least maintain the appearance of being as such, so that both Russian and NATO can co-exist without conflict.

The US has retreated from Afghanistan though, and if follow history then you'll see the US always has a mortal enemy to focus on and this time it may actually be Russia.

You keep mentioning the US, but pretty much every other country is in opposition to the Russian occupation. Acknowledging a country's independence includes allowing them to decide who they form alliances with. Ukraine wasn't being considered for NATO, yet Putin felt threatened? He doesn't want them to be independent, he wants them to be a puppet state (at the very least).

Of course, an independent country should be able to decide who they form alliances with, in principal. However, as countries such as Ukraine share its border with others, it would be naive to think their actions have no impact on those around them. No country exists in a vacuum, many decisions a country makes can have massive ramifications for those around them.

Ukraine being where it is and its status as independent actually puts it at risk. I liken it to a new prison inmate who has no gang affiliations, entering a prison and being targeted by everyone until he joins a gang. In this instance, Ukraine is a new prison inmate facing the choice of joining either the US' gang (NATO) or Russia's.

So both the US and Russia want control of Ukraine, albeit without the obvious appearance of such. Both the US and Russia's method of control would be to install a puppet government, the only difference being that Russia would ideally do it surruptitiously by making sure it gets its agents into the top jobs and the US would do it by getting Ukraine to join NATO.

Ukraine wasn't being considered for NATO? Depends what you mean by 'considered'. At a NATO summit in Bucharest, 2008, it was stated 'NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO. Both nations have made valuable contributions to Alliance operations.' I'm too new here to post links but do a google search with that phrase and you will get a result from the NATO site.

While Ukraine is still not a member currently, owing primarily to the upheaval since 2014, its clear that it is only a matter of time until it happens. Putin knows this, we all do.

When NATO made that statement in 2008, Putin didn't invade Ukraine. Its been 14 years since that was said so you have to ask the question, why would Putin decide to invade now? Clearly, he must have seen something coming with regards to Ukraine's NATO aspirations. Remember, we only know what is reported in the news or written in opinion pieces, we are not privy to the highly classified intelligence from either country so we will never truly know what is going on behind the scenes.

All I can say is this, my perspective is that this is not about 'right' or 'wrong', both the US and Russia want the same thing for the same reasons and in that regard, they are two sides of the same coin.

With the Ukrainian invasion, there's been an increase in Ruble/BTC exchanges... Likely as a result of sanctions and financial issues.

Yes, increases a combination of people trying to preserve wealth in the Ukraine but mostly due to investors positioning themselves to take advantage of a perceived future uptick. Time will tell but its always true that where there is a tragedy, a dollar is to be made.

I agree that both want power. But I think the method does differ. The US will not be installing a puppet government.
I believe the Ukraine was denied EU membership but again I think some of this relates to previous conflicts. I'd like to know why Russia has been planning the invasion for the last year. What specifically triggered it?

Also to clarify for those unaware: NATO is not US controlled. The US is a member, who actually nearly left NATO during Trump's presidency. NATO is primarily made up of European countries. This is every bit a fight between European democracy and freedom vs Russia's fears of threats from us. A little more understanding from both sides could go a long way, but neither is willing to compromise.

[Num5kull]

I feel that the only reason hackers haven't had a pop at Russia more is that's the location of all the best bulletproof servers lol and the gov is happy as long as it gets a cut of the profits and cares nothing for complaints.

[imgr8ness]

You keep mentioning the US, but pretty much every other country is in opposition to the Russian occupation. Acknowledging a country's independence includes allowing them to decide who they form alliances with. Ukraine wasn't being considered for NATO, yet Putin felt threatened? He doesn't want them to be independent, he wants them to be a puppet state (at the very least).

Of course, an independent country should be able to decide who they form alliances with, in principal. However, as countries such as Ukraine share its border with others, it would be naive to think their actions have no impact on those around them. No country exists in a vacuum, many decisions a country makes can have massive ramifications for those around them.

Ukraine being where it is and its status as independent actually puts it at risk. I liken it to a new prison inmate who has no gang affiliations, entering a prison and being targeted by everyone until he joins a gang. In this instance, Ukraine is a new prison inmate facing the choice of joining either the US' gang (NATO) or Russia's.

So both the US and Russia want control of Ukraine, albeit without the obvious appearance of such. Both the US and Russia's method of control would be to install a puppet government, the only difference being that Russia would ideally do it surruptitiously by making sure it gets its agents into the top jobs and the US would do it by getting Ukraine to join NATO.

Ukraine wasn't being considered for NATO? Depends what you mean by 'considered'. At a NATO summit in Bucharest, 2008, it was stated 'NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO.  We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO.  Both nations have made valuable contributions to Alliance operations.' I'm too new here to post links but do a google search with that phrase and you will get a result from the NATO site.

While Ukraine is still not a member currently, owing primarily to the upheaval since 2014, its clear that it is only a matter of time until it happens. Putin knows this, we all do.

When NATO made that statement in 2008, Putin didn't invade Ukraine. Its been 14 years since that was said so you have to ask the question, why would Putin decide to invade now? Clearly, he must have seen something coming with regards to Ukraine's NATO aspirations. Remember, we only know what is reported in the news or written in opinion pieces, we are not privy to the highly classified intelligence from either country so we will never truly know what is going on behind the scenes.

All I can say is this, my perspective is that this is not about 'right' or 'wrong', both the US and Russia want the same thing for the same reasons and in that regard, they are two sides of the same coin.

With the Ukrainian invasion, there's been an increase in Ruble/BTC exchanges... Likely as a result of sanctions and financial issues.

Yes, increases a combination of people trying to preserve wealth in the Ukraine but mostly due to investors positioning themselves to take advantage of a perceived future uptick. Time will tell but its always true that where there is a tragedy, a dollar is to be made.

I agree that both want power. But I think the method does differ. The US will not be installing a puppet government.
I believe the Ukraine was denied EU membership but again I think some of this relates to previous conflicts. I'd like to know why Russia has been planning the invasion for the last year. What specifically triggered it?

Also to clarify for those unaware: NATO is not US controlled. The US is a member, who actually nearly left NATO during Trump's presidency. NATO is primarily made up of European countries. This is every bit a fight between European democracy and freedom vs Russia's fears of threats from us. A little more understanding from both sides could go a long way, but neither is willing to compromise.

The US may not control NATO with an iron fist but there is no doubt they are the primary influencing member.

My evidence of this is the fact NATO was originally called the 'Washington Treaty' as it was the US governments idea to strengthen western Europe against the Soviet Union, its essentially where NATO was 'born' and if a country is invited to join NATO then they must lodge an 'instrument of accession' with the US government (NATO: article 10). And it was the US who invoked for the first time in NATO's history, Article 5 in 2001 as a result of the Sep 11 attacks.

Democracy & Freedom vs Russia? I disagree. Ukraine is simply a strategic asset that neither side will allow to be completely independent.

You ask the question, what triggered Russia to begin planning this military action a year ago? As I've said previously, understandably Russia can't have Ukraine joining NATO and without a doubt, Ukraine has been making real moves towards this goal over the last year especially. My view is, Putin could see this unfolding and prepared accordingly.

More recently in November 2021, the US Dept. of State released a statement containing the following:

The United States continues to support NATO’s decision...that Georgia and Ukraine will become NATO members. These countries’ Annual National Programs (ANP) detail their path to membership.

My view is, Ukraine has to remain completely independent which is inclusive of not joining NATO and not being absorbed by Russia. Hopefully all parties see this as the only way forward and make the right decisions which ensure this outcome.

[Boudica]

Of course, an independent country should be able to decide who they form alliances with, in principal. However, as countries such as Ukraine share its border with others, it would be naive to think their actions have no impact on those around them. No country exists in a vacuum, many decisions a country makes can have massive ramifications for those around them.

Ukraine being where it is and its status as independent actually puts it at risk. I liken it to a new prison inmate who has no gang affiliations, entering a prison and being targeted by everyone until he joins a gang. In this instance, Ukraine is a new prison inmate facing the choice of joining either the US' gang (NATO) or Russia's.

So both the US and Russia want control of Ukraine, albeit without the obvious appearance of such. Both the US and Russia's method of control would be to install a puppet government, the only difference being that Russia would ideally do it surruptitiously by making sure it gets its agents into the top jobs and the US would do it by getting Ukraine to join NATO.

Ukraine wasn't being considered for NATO? Depends what you mean by 'considered'. At a NATO summit in Bucharest, 2008, it was stated 'NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO.  We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO.  Both nations have made valuable contributions to Alliance operations.' I'm too new here to post links but do a google search with that phrase and you will get a result from the NATO site.

While Ukraine is still not a member currently, owing primarily to the upheaval since 2014, its clear that it is only a matter of time until it happens. Putin knows this, we all do.

When NATO made that statement in 2008, Putin didn't invade Ukraine. Its been 14 years since that was said so you have to ask the question, why would Putin decide to invade now? Clearly, he must have seen something coming with regards to Ukraine's NATO aspirations. Remember, we only know what is reported in the news or written in opinion pieces, we are not privy to the highly classified intelligence from either country so we will never truly know what is going on behind the scenes.

All I can say is this, my perspective is that this is not about 'right' or 'wrong', both the US and Russia want the same thing for the same reasons and in that regard, they are two sides of the same coin.

Yes, increases a combination of people trying to preserve wealth in the Ukraine but mostly due to investors positioning themselves to take advantage of a perceived future uptick. Time will tell but its always true that where there is a tragedy, a dollar is to be made.

I agree that both want power. But I think the method does differ. The US will not be installing a puppet government.
I believe the Ukraine was denied EU membership but again I think some of this relates to previous conflicts. I'd like to know why Russia has been planning the invasion for the last year. What specifically triggered it?

Also to clarify for those unaware: NATO is not US controlled. The US is a member, who actually nearly left NATO during Trump's presidency. NATO is primarily made up of European countries. This is every bit a fight between European democracy and freedom vs Russia's fears of threats from us. A little more understanding from both sides could go a long way, but neither is willing to compromise.

The US may not control NATO with an iron fist but there is no doubt they are the primary influencing member.

My evidence of this is the fact NATO was originally called the 'Washington Treaty' as it was the US governments idea to strengthen western Europe against the Soviet Union, its essentially where NATO was 'born' and if a country is invited to join NATO then they must lodge an 'instrument of accession' with the US government (NATO: article 10). And it was the US who invoked for the first time in NATO's history, Article 5 in 2001 as a result of the Sep 11 attacks.

Democracy & Freedom vs Russia? I disagree. Ukraine is simply a strategic asset that neither side will allow to be completely independent.

You ask the question, what triggered Russia to begin planning this military action a year ago? As I've said previously, understandably Russia can't have Ukraine joining NATO and without a doubt, Ukraine has been making real moves towards this goal over the last year especially. My view is, Putin could see this unfolding and prepared accordingly.

More recently in November 2021, the US Dept. of State released a statement containing the following:

The United States continues to support NATO’s decision...that Georgia and Ukraine will become NATO members. These countries’ Annual National Programs (ANP) detail their path to membership.

My view is, Ukraine has to remain completely independent which is inclusive of not joining NATO and not being absorbed by Russia. Hopefully all parties see this as the only way forward and make the right decisions which ensure this outcome.

Well researched, thank you for sharing about the US & NATO origins. However, I don't think they are as key a player in NATO as they once were. Time will soon provide evidence either way. If another republican president comes to power, we may well see the US leave NATO.

"Ukraine is simply a strategic asset that neither side will allow to be completely independent." I actually completely disagree. The Ukraine has been an independent nation, free of control from either party since the 1990s. Why couldn't they continue this way? To clarify - I'm not saying they should be part of NATO. And their EU membership application has already been denied I understand. While I understand their location is considered a strategic asset in geopolitics, I am saying that I think this is incredibly morally corrupt and shouldn't be so. This is why I continued to comment on how this is a result of a power flex between the West and Russia.

"My view is, Ukraine has to remain completely independent which is inclusive of not joining NATO and not being absorbed by Russia. Hopefully all parties see this as the only way forward and make the right decisions which ensure this outcome."

I 100% agree with this. I hope Russia and Ukraine could sign some of agreement saying such. If the Ukraine could agree not to join NATO/EU, and Russia could then agree to withdraw forces and promise not to invade/start a military operation again. The West would argue that it should be the Ukraine's right to choose whether they join NATO, and in an ideal world, they're not wrong. However, the reality is Russia feels threatened, and we as a cohesive world need to acknowledge and address that fact, whether we agree with it or not.

"You ask the question, what triggered Russia to begin planning this military action a year ago? As I've said previously, understandably Russia can't have Ukraine joining NATO and without a doubt, Ukraine has been making real moves towards this goal over the last year especially. My view is, Putin could see this unfolding and prepared accordingly."
Ah - yes! This is where I'm less informed. Please forgive me for the crude wikipedia reference, but this is what I read below:

"Ukraine applied to begin a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008.[2][3] Plans for NATO membership were shelved by Ukraine following the 2010 presidential election in which Viktor Yanukovych, who preferred to keep the country non-aligned, was elected President.[4][5] Amid the Euromaidan unrest, Yanukovych fled Ukraine in February 2014.[6] The interim Yatseniuk Government which came to power initially said, with reference to the country's non-aligned status, that it had no plans to join NATO.[7] However, following the Russian military invasion in Ukraine and parliamentary elections in October 2014, the new government made joining NATO a priority.[8] On 21 February 2019, the Constitution of Ukraine was amended, the norms on the strategic course of Ukraine for membership in the European Union and NATO are enshrined in the preamble of the Basic Law, three articles and transitional provisions.[9][10]

At the June 2021 Brussels Summit, NATO leaders reiterated the decision taken at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine would become a member of the Alliance with the Membership Action Plan (MAP) as an integral part of the process and Ukraine's right to determine its future and foreign policy, of course without outside interference.[11] NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg also stressed that Russia will not be able to veto Ukraine's accession to NATO "as we will not return to the era of spheres of interest, when large countries decide what smaller ones should do."[12]"

So did Russia begin making plans as a result of what happened in June 2021?

Would you mind if I asked, are you Russian/living in Russia right now? I had some curiosities to ask about but they're more specifically about the experience of this conflict from a citizens view from within Russia. Ofc you don't need to answer this if you don't want to.

[imgr8ness]

"So did Russia begin making plans as a result of what happened in June 2021?"

Yes I believe so. We know Putin doesn't want Ukraine joining NATO and the Ukraine has made it clear they intend to join. The Ukraine was given a plan of action detailing the path to NATO membership which is a major step towards fulfilling that outcome. It would be apparent that other surreptitious or political methods of derailing that process were failing for Putin therefore he took the next step.

[STiCKs]

MSM pushing the narrative that Russia is hellbent on world domination hahaha give me a break cunts, the US wants to push NATO into the Ukraine and box Russia in, you think Putin just gonna let that slide?
Lets not forget the flaming hypocrisy of the US, the country which enters so many other countries around the world without authority, bombs the shit out of the poor civilians in the name of peace hahaha
No one says shit about the US and their murderous missions around the world, but Russia does one thing in defence of itself and all the little sheep pile on like Putin is the next Hitler.
Anyone here actually listened to a Putin speech or read a transcript of his many talks? The man is a genius, he makes Biden look like he's playing dress ups

You do realize Russia is spreading misinformation on the war. So for you to throw around his speeches as actually fact makes you a sheep.

[imgr8ness]

You do realize Russia is spreading misinformation on the war. So for you to throw around his speeches as actually fact makes you a sheep.

Misinformation is not limited to Russia. If you are aware of misinformation being a tool then you must also realize ALL countries engage in this tactic.

As far as my reference to Putin's speeches, it was limited to simply observing that he is an intelligent man, I made no reference to the veracity of his speech content.

It seems as though you read my comment and interpreted it incorrectly, most likely due to your fervent anti-Russia stance.

[Dismas]

You do realize Russia is spreading misinformation on the war. So for you to throw around his speeches as actually fact makes you a sheep.

Misinformation is not limited to Russia. If you are aware of misinformation being a tool then you must also realize ALL countries engage in this tactic.

As far as my reference to Putin's speeches, it was limited to simply observing that he is an intelligent man, I made no reference to the veracity of his speech content.

It seems as though you read my comment and interpreted it incorrectly, most likely due to your fervent anti-Russia stance.

It's simply in poor taste to even play devil's advocate here. There's definitely misinformation, but they're just attacking civilians. Casualties are always a given when it comes to conflict, but they aren't actually targeting military threats. It's one thing to be edgy, but you're advocating war crimes at this point.

[Silver44]

It's really sad that people are dying for nothing Hope that this war will finish very qiuck....