[roger_smith]

This is why I don't like when people use the "Freedom of Speech" argument for anything. Just because Oni CAN ban anyone for anything, it doesn't mean he should, or that it is the right thing to do.

That's ultimately his choice to make though.

Just because Oni has the final say in everything that happens on SL doesn't mean that all voices of dissent are invalid/should not be listened to.

Valid or invalid, that's again his choice to make.

Of course I am powerless in controlling the status of user accounts, as I do not own the forum. I realize this. With this being said, as long as I have the privilege to post, I will continue speak out when I think Oni is in the wrong, regardless of the fact that I do not own the forum.

I like that you used the word "privilege" because ultimately that is kind of what it is. I'm not saying that to be snide or rude, I'm genuinely making the point that technically forum membership and posting is a privilege.

For the most part @Oni will take constructive criticism and look at it in a pragmatic way. Blatant disrespect and (for lack of better terms) "bitching" about things without offering up ideas for solutions is not constructive. It's whining. It's poisonous.

That is one of a few things that has lead us to where we are at today.

It's simple stuff guys/gals, if you don't want to risk a ban, follow the rules, contribute to the forum positively, and form criticisms in an effective way that can offer a potential solution, while fully understanding that the single owner of the forum can decide to do as they please.

[Mikasa]

It's simple stuff guys/gals, if you don't want to risk a ban, follow the rules, contribute to the forum positively, and form criticisms in an effective way that can offer a potential solution, while fully understanding that the single owner of the forum can decide to do as they please.

Just a simple addition to the quoted area.

The rules here are quite honestly so simple. They are short, clear and get the point across. This is not the kind of forum that has a whole rule book. Rules are standard, and for the most part complete common sense.

[Oni]

At the end of the day, this forum is a private website, owned and operated by @Oni and he can make whatever calls he wants. He could ban me tomorrow because he doesn't like my t-shirt. It is what it is.

I was in the same chat the logs came from. There is a certain level if disrespect and if oni wants to issue a ban on that, it's his call.

People argue a lot about freedom of speech and censorship. As far as that goes, freedom of speech in the terms of the first amendment applies to your freedom of speech not being infringed upon by the government. It has nothing to do with private groups/clubs/sites/etc. A private group/site/club/etc can deem what is and isn't acceptable for participation or admittance.

Personally I'm sad to see a lot of the turbulence, but some of that is above my pay grade

Nobody likes turbulence.

Hah. :p

EDIT: I agree with Roger. It is what it is and if someone doesn't like it, no one's forcing them to be here.

Precisely this. If you don't like being here or disagree with how I do things, express it in a respectful way. Also, remember that nobody is forcing you to stay.

Just a simple addition to the quoted area.

The rules here are quite honestly so simple. They are short, clear and get the point across. This is not the kind of forum that has a whole rule book. Rules are standard, and for the most part complete common sense.

That, and I'm an incredibly reasonable. Oftentimes, I'm willing to give second chances, and even end permanent bans. However, that requires you have an interest in the forum and no interest in repeating past mistakes.

[roger_smith]

That, and I'm an incredibly reasonable. Oftentimes, I'm willing to give second chances, and even end permanent bans. However, that requires you have an interest in the forum and no interest in repeating past mistakes.

this.

[Dyme]

That's ultimately his choice to make though.


Valid or invalid, that's again his choice to make.

But are you still not getting my point? I conceded that I know Oni is complete control over his forum. This I already understand as I said many times before.

It is his choice to make, I have never denied or refuted this claim. Are you suggesting that nobody should ever disagree with what Oni does and voice their opinion about it, simply because Oni owns the forum? I know you probably don't think so, but that is the impression your argument is giving off.

If Oni, right now, just permanently banned you for no specific reason, would you say "Oh well he owns the forum so I'm ok with this"? Maybe, but instinctively you would probably be angry and certainly disagree with what Oni did. With these feelings, would you really say nothing and just move on with your life and never express your distaste for Oni's decision? I know I wouldn't. Maybe it's a personality difference, I don't know. I'm just trying to get you to look at it from a different perspective.

But to reiterate one more time in case I haven't done so already. I understand that Oni owns this forum and can do whatever he likes with it. With this being said, I do not think it is wrong to express distaste for decisions made by Oni.

It's clear I'm not being understood so I'll just stop. Tbh I don't even care about the fact these ppl were banned or whatever I just don't like the fact that Oni is being dishonest and purposefully leaving out necessary information. Just because I don't like the fact that he's doing it, doesn't mean I'm denying that he has the right to do it, as he is the owner of this forum.

[Oni]

But are you still not getting my point? I conceded that I know Oni is complete control over his forum. This I already understand as I said many times before.

It is his choice to make, I have never denied or refuted this claim. Are you suggesting that nobody should ever disagree with what Oni does and voice their opinion about it, simply because Oni owns the forum? I know you probably don't think so, but that is the impression your argument is giving off.

If Oni, right now, just permanently banned you for no specific reason, would you say "Oh well he owns the forum so I'm ok with this"? Maybe, but instinctively you would probably be angry and certainly disagree with what Oni did. With these feelings, would you really say nothing and just move on with your life and never express your distaste for Oni's decision? I know I wouldn't. Maybe it's a personality difference, I don't know. I'm just trying to get you to look at it from a different perspective.

But to reiterate one more time in case I haven't done so already. I understand that Oni owns this forum and can do whatever he likes with it. With this being said, I do not think it is wrong to express distaste for decisions made by Oni.

It's clear I'm not being understood so I'll just stop. Tbh I don't even care about the fact these ppl were banned or whatever I just don't like the fact that Oni is being dishonest and purposefully leaving out necessary information. Just because I don't like the fact that he's doing it, doesn't mean I'm denying that he has the right to do it, as he is the owner of this forum.

You can express distaste, but you're to do so respectfully. It's very rare I'll treat someone disrespectfully outright. If you treat me respectfully, I promise to do the absolute same. If you don't, I won't, and I sure as hell won't want you on my forum. In the end, I run this forum because I love it, and I have a small tolerance for people that disrespect it either.

[Dyme]

You can express distaste, but you're to do so respectfully. It's very rare I'll treat someone disrespectfully outright. If you treat me respectfully, I promise to do the absolute same. If you don't, I won't, and I sure as hell won't want you on my forum. In the end, I run this forum because I love it, and I have a small tolerance for people that disrespect it either.

Ok. And I have done just that.

[roger_smith]

You can express distaste, but you're to do so respectfully. It's very rare I'll treat someone disrespectfully outright. If you treat me respectfully, I promise to do the absolute same. If you don't, I won't, and I sure as hell won't want you on my forum. In the end, I run this forum because I love it, and I have a small tolerance for people that disrespect it either.

^^This

I'm pretty sure this is the point I made. That would be the "constructive criticism" portion of my response.

[MiS]

Personally, I think that permabans were a bit much in regards to how they were long time members of the community. Some may have broken the rules and some may have been blunt in terms of criticism, but I believe that permabans should only be reserved for spambots, blatantly illegal things, or repeat offenders.

I agree that since it's @Oni's forum, he's to do with what he pleases for what he thinks is best for the site and community as a whole, meaning when it comes down to it, he has the final say in what goes. I'm pretty sure that if anyone had the best intentions for the community, it'd be the admin and owner themselves. It goes without saying that when I first joined, I remember how amiable and friendly he was, and he connected with everyone not as an admin, but also as a person.

Spoiler: What I think of you

I guess everything that I've done in SL just boils down to you. Without you, Sinisterly wouldn't exist, members of those separate, late sites would likely stay disconnected, nullchan would be nothing, and all of us members here wouldn't be in this drunk, never-ending party we call a forum. I want to let you know that I appreciate everything you've done, from helping me find this homely place to regulating it whenever you can, and that the people here do care about what you do, no matter how tsundere they are about showing it. You are a great admin and an amazing person as well - I really hope we get to chat a bunch more whether it's on the forums, Skype, or IRC.

I still mean every word I said that day.

However, since these people, @"Poochy", @Mom and @Kizaru, are old members who were very well part of the community and in the past and helped shape SL for what it is, expressed concern and criticism about the site (be it as it was delivered somewhat extreme and in spam), I think that those concerns should be addressed head-on, not ignored as if they were just spammers or "annoying" members.

I think the most worrying scenario is that things just feel "censored" without the banned members getting their side of the story heard fairly; if we look at the bans page, all that's said about their summary about them being removed is that "finger slipped", or "spamming" - which doesn't say much about these long time members being suddenly banned removed. In addition, certain threads were removed before; yes, they were critical and somewhat disrespectful, but does that warrant complete deletion since it was still criticism?

Although information within there may have been the result of private conversation, the fact that those logs were released means that it's floating around in the internet now, out in the public whether it's discussed here or not - PM, pastebin, or otherwise. Honestly, I think it'd just be better to address said logs with context of your own, since it came from your mouth; it'd be much better than trying to hide what was said and people conceiving their own opinions regardless of what was actually meant.

[Dyme]

I think the most worrying scenario is that things just feel "censored" without the banned members getting their side of the story heard fairly; if we look at the bans page, all that's said about their summary about them being removed is that "finger slipped", or "spamming" - which doesn't say much about these long time members being suddenly banned removed. In addition, certain threads were removed before; yes, they were critical and somewhat disrespectful, but does that warrant complete deletion since it was still criticism?

Although information within there may have been the result of private conversation, the fact that those logs were released means that it's floating around in the internet now, out in the public whether it's discussed here or not - PM, pastebin, or otherwise. Honestly, I think it'd just be better to address said logs with context of your own, since it came from your mouth; it'd be much better than trying to hide what was said and people conceiving their own opinions regardless of what was actually meant.

go mis go!!!! your weeaboo word holds much more weight than mine does. Maybe it'll make more sense coming from you rather than me.