[w00t]

I don't doubt it, but I question the relevance. I'm arguing that, after a short period of time, most illegal guns would be off the street, because, as you said, people inclined to follow the law would have given them up to begin with. At which point, someone has to pay to get new guns in.

[Sir]

Oni is a fucking genius.

Basically saying what I was going to say:

If you take away guns, all the people who care about the law and rightfully own a gun will give up their guns, but the people who will be murderers, will have guns as they don't care about the law.

Taking away guns because of bad guys -> Bad guys don't care about the law -> Bad guys will have guns anyways

Taking away guns will have more robberies and home invasions as robbers will break into houses knowing the homeowner has no guns.

Couldn't agree with ya more. Some political conspiracy is definitely behind this, if we can think of that, so can the fat-cat politicians.

[Nuance]

Couldn't agree with ya more. Some political conspiracy is definitely behind this, if we can think of that, so can the fat-cat politicians.

There has been a saying around for a while about this.
If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.

Only armed citizens can defend themselves against armed criminals.

[w00t]

But the armed criminal won't last long. Organized crime no longer has incentive to traffic guns, and all the "outlaws" with guns are likely to use them in a relatively short amount of time, getting them off the street.

No one here is advocating or complete de-armament either. In the UK, it's not illegal to own firearms, but in our culture it's not as glorified, and it's a hell of a process to get a permit to own one.

[Sir]

Organized crime no longer has incentive to traffic guns

They would take over selling to blue collar people such as myself. You think I'm not going to own a gun?

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant?

[w00t]

First you argue that only criminals would own guns, then you argue that because of that everyone else would own guns. Slippery slope fallacy.

If we are assuming that gun restrictions would be pointless as only criminals would own guns, then organized crime would no longer need to traffic guns. A large man with a knife becomes just as intimidating as one with a knife in that situation.

[Sir]

First you argue that only criminals would own guns, then you argue that because of that everyone else would own guns.

Quote me where I said those exact words please.

[w00t]

They would take over selling to blue collar people such as myself. You think I'm not going to own a gun?

That insinuates that there would be enough interest in illegal guns by law-abiding citizens, which is the polar opposite of the previously asserted "only outlaws own guns" situation.

[cr33pyguy]

The news said people say he was a smart boy? A 13 year old should know what drop your weapon means.

The news say what sells; it doesn't have to be proven.
"smart" is a really loose word; that's why the news use it.

---

I still have a hard time understanding why people are against the right to protect property. Seems pretty common-sense to me. If guns were made illegal or heavily controlled, a blackmarket would be instantly created. In a place like the United States, where so many guns already exist, it's ridiculous to think criminals wouldn't be able to obtain them. Criminals would have them. However, the police and civilians wouldn't. I can safely say that I own multiple firearms, and it wouldn't be hard to explain their "disappearance" if they were made illegal. Little or no paperwork was done when I purchased them, so it would be quite plausible.

Now, I have a good example of a country with many guns, but a low percentage of them in the crime statistics: Finland.
So, Finland has the fourth most guns per capita in the world.
even so, only 14% of the homicides are committed with them.
Why? Gun control; you have to apply for a permit, which is usually for hunting or shooting range purposes. You cannot get a gun for self defense.

[Eclipse]

I have no sympathy for this kid. What an idiot.