[mothered]

This made me start looking for ways to legally protect myself. Guess what? There aren't any in the UK. Even pepper spray is illegal.

This Is a perfect example of how an overkill In eliminating (potential) weapons can be counterproductive.

As with everything In life, there needs to be a balance. Eliminating guns will NOT stop a murderer. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[Jiggly]

This made me start looking for ways to legally protect myself. Guess what? There aren't any in the UK. Even pepper spray is illegal.

This Is a perfect example of how an overkill In eliminating (potential) weapons can be counterproductive.

As with everything In life, there needs to be a balance. Eliminating guns will NOT stop a murderer. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

You're right. We still have people killed here. When it's something like stabbings, people are more likely to survive, but it didn't stop the criminal from trying.

[Rick]

This made me start looking for ways to legally protect myself. Guess what? There aren't any in the UK. Even pepper spray is illegal.

This Is a perfect example of how an overkill In eliminating (potential) weapons can be counterproductive.

As with everything In life, there needs to be a balance. Eliminating guns will NOT stop a murderer. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

You're right. We still have people killed here. When it's something like stabbings, people are more likely to survive, but it didn't stop the criminal from trying.

So your point here is what? Did you accept that strict gun control is a good thing? 2.8% of people are assault victims in the UK, and granted that is a bit over twice the % of the U.S, but I'd personally rather be at twice the risk of getting attacked than 138 times as likely to be involved in a firearm murder and 4 times as likely to be murdered at all.

What the fuck are you guys talking about "A balance"? If you take any time to look at the countries with the lowest Homicide rate, you'll notice that they all have restrictive gun laws, the ones at the top of the list however have a much lower restriction on guns.

Do you think something like Orlando would've happened in the UK or another country with very restrictive gun laws? Sure you can't stop people wanting to kill eachother, but you can make it harder for them, and you can certainly make it a lot harder for Mass shootings to take place.

[insidious]

Do you think something like Orlando would've happened in the UK or another country with very restrictive gun laws? Sure you can't stop people wanting to kill eachother, but you can make it harder for them, and you can certainly make it a lot harder for Mass shootings to take place.

It still stands that when you look at the big picture, statistically, the UK has more deaths from violence than the US.


That doesn't mean I support loose gun laws. I believe there should be some regulation.

WIth regards the the Orlando shooting, I believe the shooter was using an AR-15 Assault Rifle. This is the same gun that's been used in numerous other mass-shootings over the last few years.

There is no reason a citizen should be able to use and own an Assault Rifle made for killing mass amounts of people in a short amount of time. I think this is what is meant by 'balance'. Don't restrict all guns, just restrict the guns that are most often used to facilitate these mass-shootings.

[Rick]

Do you think something like Orlando would've happened in the UK or another country with very restrictive gun laws? Sure you can't stop people wanting to kill eachother, but you can make it harder for them, and you can certainly make it a lot harder for Mass shootings to take place.

It still stands that when you look at the big picture, statistically, the UK has more deaths from violence than the US.


That doesn't mean I support loose gun laws. I believe there should be some regulation.

WIth regards the the Orlando shooting, I believe the shooter was using an AR-15 Assault Rifle. This is the same gun that's been used in numerous other mass-shootings over the last few years.

There is no reason a citizen should be able to use and own an Assault Rifle made for killing mass amounts of people in a short amount of time. I think this is what is meant by 'balance'. Don't restrict all guns, just restrict the guns that are most often used to facilitate these mass-shootings.

You claimed death rates from violent crime were higher in the UK and then showed a graph of violent crimes as a whole?

I've already pointed out that you are 4 times more likely to be killed in a homicide in the US. So if you 'look at the big picture' you're much less likely to die from violent crime in the United Kingdom (that graph is for rates of violent crime not deaths).

Additionally that graph is fucking stupid, I found the reports that they got that information from and yes, they're government agency reports. However, as I've already said the definitions used by the respective agencies for Violent crime is much more broad in the UK and so there are more offenses, if you look at rates for Assault it's not too much higher in the UK than the US and I'd take that over a greatly increased chance of getting shot any day.

[Jiggly]

This Is a perfect example of how an overkill In eliminating (potential) weapons can be counterproductive.

As with everything In life, there needs to be a balance. Eliminating guns will NOT stop a murderer. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

You're right. We still have people killed here. When it's something like stabbings, people are more likely to survive, but it didn't stop the criminal from trying.

So your point here is what? Did you accept that strict gun control is a good thing? 2.8% of people are assault victims in the UK, and granted that is a bit over twice the % of the U.S, but I'd personally rather be at twice the risk of getting attacked than 138 times as likely to be involved in a firearm murder and 4 times as likely to be murdered at all.

What the fuck are you guys talking about "A balance"? If you take any time to look at the countries with the lowest Homicide rate, you'll notice that they all have restrictive gun laws, the ones at the top of the list however have a much lower restriction on guns.

Do you think something like Orlando would've happened in the UK or another country with very restrictive gun laws? Sure you can't stop people wanting to kill eachother, but you can make it harder for them, and you can certainly make it a lot harder for Mass shootings to take place.

I get what your saying. When I mention balance, I am talking specifically about the circumstances of the UK and US. It would be interesting to see how you could reduce BOTH and not just choose one or the other. I don't feel safer in the UK knowing people don't have guns, because they actually do in some places. Also, would you rather die instantly with a shot to the head or bleed out for 9 excruciating hours? While I don't like how gun sales are too easy, I don't necessarily believe they should be taken away. The UK also shouldn't make pepper spray illegal. It's ridiculous.

---

Do you think something like Orlando would've happened in the UK or another country with very restrictive gun laws? Sure you can't stop people wanting to kill eachother, but you can make it harder for them, and you can certainly make it a lot harder for Mass shootings to take place.

It still stands that when you look at the big picture, statistically, the UK has more deaths from violence than the US.


That doesn't mean I support loose gun laws. I believe there should be some regulation.

WIth regards the the Orlando shooting, I believe the shooter was using an AR-15 Assault Rifle. This is the same gun that's been used in numerous other mass-shootings over the last few years.

There is no reason a citizen should be able to use and own an Assault Rifle made for killing mass amounts of people in a short amount of time. I think this is what is meant by 'balance'. Don't restrict all guns, just restrict the guns that are most often used to facilitate these mass-shootings.

What's weird is this guy had supposed domestic abuse issues, reports of hateful comments towards the gay community from colleagues, was on the FBI radar (they just couldn't nab him) and yet he was able to purchase a gun? What the actual fuck happened to background checks?

---

Do you think something like Orlando would've happened in the UK or another country with very restrictive gun laws? Sure you can't stop people wanting to kill eachother, but you can make it harder for them, and you can certainly make it a lot harder for Mass shootings to take place.

It still stands that when you look at the big picture, statistically, the UK has more deaths from violence than the US.


That doesn't mean I support loose gun laws. I believe there should be some regulation.

WIth regards the the Orlando shooting, I believe the shooter was using an AR-15 Assault Rifle. This is the same gun that's been used in numerous other mass-shootings over the last few years.

There is no reason a citizen should be able to use and own an Assault Rifle made for killing mass amounts of people in a short amount of time. I think this is what is meant by 'balance'. Don't restrict all guns, just restrict the guns that are most often used to facilitate these mass-shootings.

You claimed death rates from violent crime were higher in the UK and then showed a graph of violent crimes as a whole?

I've already pointed out that you are 4 times more likely to be killed in a homicide in the US. So if you 'look at the big picture' you're much less likely to die from violent crime in the United Kingdom (that graph is for rates of violent crime not deaths).

Additionally that graph is fucking stupid, I found the reports that they got that information from and yes, they're government agency reports. However, as I've already said the definitions used by the respective agencies for Violent crime is much more broad in the UK and so there are more offenses, if you look at rates for Assault it's not too much higher in the UK than the US and I'd take that over a greatly increased chance of getting shot any day.

No no, I was saying, the UK has more violent crimes but less killings, whereas the US has less violent crimes, but more killings. I wasn't saying we get killed more xD

And you are right about the types of crime. I have thoroughly researched in the past and it does depend on the type of crime. We are far higher in some types than others. As a general trend, the US mostly only ever surpasses our numbers per capita in gun related crime. Also, this is the same for both countries: It can totally change from region to region.


Just to make something clear: I'm not choosing sides. I want a safer UK and a safer US, and wondered how people think something like that can be achieved.

[Rick]

Don't worry I wasn't saying 'you quote the wrong stuff' to you, it was directed towards insidious, but it still does annoy me that you used a very skewed graph as evidence in the OP.

I personally believe that the more restrictions on weapons is very important, but obviously when it gets to baseball bats and knives you can't restrict it any more. But it's mostly down to social and economic aspects as to why people commit crimes, and boosting an economy and lowering the class divide would do wonders for certain crimes.

[Jiggly]

Don't worry I wasn't saying 'you quote the wrong stuff' to you, it was directed towards insidious, but it still does annoy me that you used a very skewed graph as evidence in the OP.

I personally believe that the more restrictions on weapons is very important, but obviously when it gets to baseball bats and knives you can't restrict it any more. But it's mostly down to social and economic aspects as to why people commit crimes, and boosting an economy and lowering the class divide would do wonders for certain crimes.

No worries, and it is a shitty graph xD I was trying to find a visual way of showing what I was trying to say. The other graphs I found weren't great either. Used to have a pretty good info sheet on this stuff but god knows where that file went.

I totally agree. Places like Australia, have a very different situation despite similarities in some laws to the UK. I'd love for the UK to be more like that. But there are reasons places turn out like they do. I remember the riots we had in the summer some years ago. I haven't been so disappointed in my country as back then.

[Pirate]

I absolutely will not do without a gun, I don't think there is anybody in my family that does not own at least 2 guns actually, we are all extremely right wing.

[Eclipse]

That chart is completely invalid without definitions if it uses the legal definition of violent crime. UK legislation classes 'violent crimes' under the most idiotic, harmless things.


Nothing will ever protect the fact someone can target a group of people and strip them from their right to live