[yokai]

I am talking about an agreement before the deal, not charging for something the "receiver" didn't know would cost. Once again, we're not talking about a stupid dumb circle and such amount. If you are still referring to this awards made by @10, then like he stated himself: He did not want a payment, but he was offered. Even if he did want to charge, there's nothing wrong with it. (Unless he says it'll cost something after delivering the work etc.

My point is - small things can cost, and prices is up to the buyer, whether it's justified or not. If he doesn't like it, move on.

And as he stated himself, he originally agreed to taking money for them. (Which was when my comment about it popped up, and afterwards he stated he refused the money. I cannot honestly be expected to look into the future, now can I?) I was talking about charging for something that isn't justified, not an agreement, so you did fail to even follow the subject at hand. (Because as I already said, I agree to some degree on that point, which still wasn't the topic.)

The point you make at the end there. You know why people don't change easily? Because they try to gain something all the time. They are more fixated on gaining something than changing something. There was barely a single artist 5 years ago that charged for simple work, and a funny thing, there were also hundreds more artists, all whom were more skilled than 90% of people today. The only thing that change was that people started charging for every little thing. That means they do less work, get less practice, and get less constructive feedback. Meaning the overall quality drops and people get nowhere. Because they get to fixated on something as (ironically) worthless as numbers.

If you are doing a job and you can do it as bad as you want and still get charged, then the majority will just do it as simple and bad as they can as they don't care. That means little quality, no improvement and a twisted view on what's "good". I believe, and insist that others should at least consider it, that improvement, quality and moving forward is far better and more interesting than going backwards.

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Of course @12 , these kids are taking you serious, be careful lol you might hurt their pride

Its a tad ironic really, how this thing started because I stated that being honest is the best way to improve and here we are having a debate because I was too honest.

[Theós]

I am talking about an agreement before the deal, not charging for something the "receiver" didn't know would cost. Once again, we're not talking about a stupid dumb circle and such amount. If you are still referring to this awards made by @10, then like he stated himself: He did not want a payment, but he was offered. Even if he did want to charge, there's nothing wrong with it. (Unless he says it'll cost something after delivering the work etc.

My point is - small things can cost, and prices is up to the buyer, whether it's justified or not. If he doesn't like it, move on.

And as he stated himself, he originally agreed to taking money for them. (Which was when my comment about it popped up, and afterwards he stated he refused the money. I cannot honestly be expected to look into the future, now can I?) I was talking about charging for something that isn't justified, not an agreement, so you did fail to even follow the subject at hand. (Because as I already said, I agree to some degree on that point, which still wasn't the topic.)

The point you make at the end there. You know why people don't change easily? Because they try to gain something all the time. They are more fixated on gaining something than changing something. There was barely a single artist 5 years ago that charged for simple work, and a funny thing, there were also hundreds more artists, all whom were more skilled than 90% of people today. The only thing that change was that people started charging for every little thing. That means they do less work, get less practice, and get less constructive feedback. Meaning the overall quality drops and people get nowhere. Because they get to fixated on something as (ironically) worthless as numbers.

If you are doing a job and you can do it as bad as you want and still get charged, then the majority will just do it as simple and bad as they can as they don't care. That means little quality, no improvement and a twisted view on what's "good". I believe, and insist that others should at least consider it, that improvement, quality and moving forward is far better and more interesting than going backwards.

---

Of course @12 , these kids are taking you serious, be careful lol you might hurt their pride

Its a tad ironic really, how this thing started because I stated that being honest is the best way to improve and here we are having a debate because I was too honest.

I mean it's nice to have these people side with me, but honestly you make really good points. I've actually improved in some aspects with your "harsh" critism

[Redsin]

And as he stated himself, he originally agreed to taking money for them. (Which was when my comment about it popped up, and afterwards he stated he refused the money. I cannot honestly be expected to look into the future, now can I?) I was talking about charging for something that isn't justified, not an agreement, so you did fail to even follow the subject at hand. (Because as I already said, I agree to some degree on that point, which still wasn't the topic.)

He was offered from what he has written. Charging is to require a payment, which he didn't. There was no agreement of any sort, I am aware. You are saying that he "charged for something that isn't justified". Well, guess what. He did not charge.

[yokai]

He was offered from what he has written. Charging is to require a payment, which he didn't. There was no agreement of any sort, I am aware. You are saying that he "charged for something that isn't justified". Well, guess what. He did not charge.

While he was, but went back on it. (Again, you must apologize for my lack of foresight.) He was asked how much he'd charged for it, he gave a price. Then went back on it. So yes, did charge. (But went back on it.)

[Red_mybb_import25644]

You guys need to stop, Inton and Bubble are both direct people when it comes to things. Sure Inton might seem like a dick at times but that is far from his intentions. This is just going to go on and on for no real reason, Just stop replying and leave it how it is there literally is no point carrying all this on.

[yokai]

You guys need to stop, Inton and Bubble are both direct people when it comes to things. Sure Inton might seem like a dick at times but that is far from his intentions. This is just going to go on and on for no real reason, Just stop replying and leave it how it is there literally is no point carrying all this on.

Everything I do, I do for fun and this debate is fun indeed.

[Theós]

This will sort everything out, chat logs in group chat and me and nathy.

for some reason SBB said there was 11 images in the message when there wasnt any. so i had to put it in pastebin,


http://pastebin.com/pisKK9iK

[yokai]

This will sort everything out, chat logs in group chat and me and nathy.

for some reason SBB said there was 11 images in the message when there wasnt any. so i had to put it in pastebin,

Doesn't change much, as your case was used as the "first brick" the game is on already. That being said, I had already said you first said you'd charge then you went back on it.

[Redsin]

You guys need to stop, Inton and Bubble are both direct people when it comes to things. Sure Inton might seem like a dick at times but that is far from his intentions. This is just going to go on and on for no real reason, Just stop replying and leave it how it is there literally is no point carrying all this on.

This is an appropriate discussion, there is no comment directing at him stating that he's a dick from me. (I assume you are referring to me?)

---

This will sort everything out, chat logs in group chat and me and nathy.

for some reason SBB said there was 11 images in the message when there wasnt any. so i had to put it in pastebin,


http://pastebin.com/pisKK9iK

Oh, it was an agreement to start with. There is no problem with everything at all, even if there was no agreement. I'm finished, there is nothing else to discuss. That settles it.

[yokai]

Oh, it was an agreement to start with. There is no problem with everything at all, even if there was no agreement. I'm finished, there is nothing else to discuss. That settles it.

Again, at least stick to the topic if you plan on debating. Agreement was nowhere near the subject. The fact that he wanted to charge for an already existing product was. You are right though, you have nothing else to add unless you are going to agree. At least I cannot see a single way to get around it that you haven't tried already.