[w00t]

America, as a nation, is a fine nation. Complete freedom of speech, none of this hate-speech bans to prevent offending people crap. It truly is the land of opportunity. Unfortunately, a strong part of the nation's citizens are pretty stuck up, notably peoples from south US.

I don't recall where, but there was some study that when Americans traveling abroad were asked where they were from, a strong percentage replied with their state, as if everyone should know the US states. In my own experience(I live in a tourist city), Americans talk to people really slowly in English. If we speak English, we speak it, we don't have impediments.

My bit on patriotism may have been misconstrued as an attack on beliefs, which it wasn't designed to be. I was raising the point, which I hadn't thought of before, that I've only heard Americans refer to themselves as patriotic, whereas a European loyal to their country is referred to as a nationalist, if not just by their nationality(German, Spanish, etc). Part of this terminology is likely a toss to the term being used to describe American revolutionaries, and how Americans, while they love their country just as much as a Frenchman, have violence, and guns, more deeply ingrained into their culture than Europeans.

I've watched a few movies American movies rated for 13 year olds, and the amount of violence in them is staggering. I heard from a neighbor who lived in America for the past few years that nudity and sex are viewed as more obscene then violence, and I'd have to agree, your movie ratings being a prime example. If the word "fuck" occurs more than 5 times in a movie, more than likely it receives an adults-only rating. But a movie with some pretty graphics deaths, such as "The Ring", only gathers a teen rating.

Now, I realize not all Americans are like this. But sadly, enough are of the "we luv gunz we luv violence lets go kill people" crowd that it reflects upon the entirety.

[Dismas]

America, as a nation, is a fine nation. Complete freedom of speech, none of this hate-speech bans to prevent offending people crap. It truly is the land of opportunity. Unfortunately, a strong part of the nation's citizens are pretty stuck up, notably peoples from south US.

I don't recall where, but there was some study that when Americans traveling abroad were asked where they were from, a strong percentage replied with their state, as if everyone should know the US states. In my own experience(I live in a tourist city), Americans talk to people really slowly in English. If we speak English, we speak it, we don't have impediments.

My bit on patriotism may have been misconstrued as an attack on beliefs, which it wasn't designed to be. I was raising the point, which I hadn't thought of before, that I've only heard Americans refer to themselves as patriotic, whereas a European loyal to their country is referred to as a nationalist, if not just by their nationality(German, Spanish, etc). Part of this terminology is likely a toss to the term being used to describe American revolutionaries, and how Americans, while they love their country just as much as a Frenchman, have violence, and guns, more deeply ingrained into their culture than Europeans.

I've watched a few movies American movies rated for 13 year olds, and the amount of violence in them is staggering. I heard from a neighbor who lived in America for the past few years that nudity and sex are viewed as more obscene then violence, and I'd have to agree, your movie ratings being a prime example. If the word "fuck" occurs more than 5 times in a movie, more than likely it receives an adults-only rating. But a movie with some pretty graphics deaths, such as "The Ring", only gathers a teen rating.

Now, I realize not all Americans are like this. But sadly, enough are of the "we luv gunz we luv violence lets go kill people" crowd that it reflects upon the entirety.

My apologies then. However, I'm a person who loves guns, and not to promote violence - actually to stop it. My concern, although I feel pity for victims, is that gun control will receive much more attention. While that may be a good thing, as mentally unstable individuals shouldn't obtain firearms, it could also be a very very bad thing. As with copyright infringement, the US government doesn't seem to find the best laws for gun control either. As George Washington stated, "a free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies."

The freedom of speech you mention (which is currently under just as much threat), is the exact same freedom that allows us to possess firearms. Keep in mind, the only way to obtain freedom of speech once again, if it's been taken away, is to use firearms. Additionally, firearms can be used by individuals to protect their families so situations like these don't escalate. While I'd never suggest we allow children to possess firearms at school, it wouldn't hurt to allow teachers and staff to - provided they are under lock and key. As with the Battle of Athens, civilians are able to protect their land from corruption with firearms. This allows the nation to be more independent. Some people, however, can't deal with this amount of responsibility.

[w00t]

The masses having guns is no longer a tool of the social contract. If you are going to rebel against a non-third world government, you need your military's say-so.

Self defence is the most compelling argument I've heard for keeping firearms laws as they are, or even lessening them.

The US has around 47% gun ownership, meaning around 47% legallyhave a firearm in their home, car, or other property. Ireland has a legal rate of 5.9 guns to 100 people, and, with a speculated 150k illegal firearms, a total of 9.1 guns to people.The emerald isle also boasts a statistic of having only 21% of 2007 murders being committed with a firearm, as opposed to the 2009 UN estimate of 60% of US murders being committed with a firearm.

With those statistics, can you say that the US wouldn't be better off with Ireland's gun laws?

[Ultimatum]

Yes, Barack Obama will tighten the rules around firearms and their use in the near future. You might all think he sucks, but in reality, he really cared in this event, and he did cry on camera. Anyway, this was absolutely tragic and those children did not deserve to die under the whims of a mad man.

[Mustnabs]

A guy killing 20 kids... and I thought I don't have a heart, that's just insane.

[Kinanizer]

America, as a nation, is a fine nation. Complete freedom of speech, none of this hate-speech bans to prevent offending people crap. It truly is the land of opportunity. Unfortunately, a strong part of the nation's citizens are pretty stuck up, notably peoples from south US.

I don't recall where, but there was some study that when Americans traveling abroad were asked where they were from, a strong percentage replied with their state, as if everyone should know the US states. In my own experience(I live in a tourist city), Americans talk to people really slowly in English. If we speak English, we speak it, we don't have impediments.

My bit on patriotism may have been misconstrued as an attack on beliefs, which it wasn't designed to be. I was raising the point, which I hadn't thought of before, that I've only heard Americans refer to themselves as patriotic, whereas a European loyal to their country is referred to as a nationalist, if not just by their nationality(German, Spanish, etc). Part of this terminology is likely a toss to the term being used to describe American revolutionaries, and how Americans, while they love their country just as much as a Frenchman, have violence, and guns, more deeply ingrained into their culture than Europeans.

I've watched a few movies American movies rated for 13 year olds, and the amount of violence in them is staggering. I heard from a neighbor who lived in America for the past few years that nudity and sex are viewed as more obscene then violence, and I'd have to agree, your movie ratings being a prime example. If the word "fuck" occurs more than 5 times in a movie, more than likely it receives an adults-only rating. But a movie with some pretty graphics deaths, such as "The Ring", only gathers a teen rating.

Now, I realize not all Americans are like this. But sadly, enough are of the "we luv gunz we luv violence lets go kill people" crowd that it reflects upon the entirety.

I've never been to the south, but from the conversations I've had with people from there, they're not that bad. While hillbillies tend to live in the south, so that's probably what your referring to. Although they live in more places then the south, therefor I don't believe you should say the south has issues. As for traveling Americans, when I took a trip to Europe I didn't talk slowly, but I know a lot of people probably do. On expecting people to know our states, well most people do know. Besides when you do ask an American where they're from, you usually can tell by their appearance they're American. In my opinion patriotism is a synonym for nationalist, it's just a matter of dialect. As for our movies, ya that is a problem. Many Americans are trying to make movements against that. As for me I'm boycotting Hollywood by only listening to music.

[Kolt1911]

"The members of Westboro Baptist Church announced their intention to picket the funerals of the victims and praised the shooting as "God's judgment" on a wicked city. In response, the hacktivist group Anonymous hacked the church's website and posted contact information for all of its members. Also, numerous petitions appeared on the White House's We The People website urging the government to revoke Westboro's tax-exempt status and legally recognize it as a hate group rather than a church"

THANK YOU ANONYMOUS!!!

---

Westboro Baptist Church Contact Info can be found here:
http://www.anonpaste.me/anonpaste2/index...ZBqWpaGcMI=

[Dismas]

The masses having guns is no longer a tool of the social contract. If you are going to rebel against a non-third world government, you need your military's say-so.

Self defence is the most compelling argument I've heard for keeping firearms laws as they are, or even lessening them.

The US has around 47% gun ownership, meaning around 47% legallyhave a firearm in their home, car, or other property. Ireland has a legal rate of 5.9 guns to 100 people, and, with a speculated 150k illegal firearms, a total of 9.1 guns to people.The emerald isle also boasts a statistic of having only 21% of 2007 murders being committed with a firearm, as opposed to the 2009 UN estimate of 60% of US murders being committed with a firearm.

With those statistics, can you say that the US wouldn't be better off with Ireland's gun laws?

While utilizing something like the Firearms Act will help, I don't think it's a good approach. People should be able to obtain a firearm swiftly if they need to and not have to fill out a large amount of paperwork. There are also collectors of automatics and submachine guns who've invested thousands of dollars into their collections. Taking away their guns would be like a slap to their face, especially since they aren't committing the murders. If the school staff had firearms, it's likely the boy would have been dealt with. I'll leave a simple picture to describe why any measure of disarming is a bad idea.



There are very few people who go around and commit these mass killings, all of which have some sort of mental illness. Regular people shouldn't be prevented from buying guns, whether it's through paperwork, or anything else. If anything, I think citizens should arm up. If more people had firearms, a boy like the one at school wouldn't have managed to kill so many. In addition to preventing issues like these, they are useful in the case that the government becomes corrupt. I know you think people would need the "military's say-so," but we can agree to disagree. One of the first things Hitler did to the Jews was take away their guns.

Keep in mind, the boy didn't own those guns. He stole his mother's.

[w00t]

I'd like to clear up a miscommunication, when I said military I didn't mean the power structure, I meant the majority of the servicemen, the grunts. If they aren't behind a coup, they are all well trained and well armed to crush it.

As for the argument saying that armed school employee's could have stopped the violence at an early stage, there's a quandry to that. For any of the adults to have shot the threat, they would have had to have quick, easy access to a firearm. But surely having easily accessed firearms at a school full of children is not something you advocate? I've seen fellows fresh out of firearms training do something stupid that injured people.

You and I agree on two things. Mentally unstable people should not have access to guns, and the stable people should not be stripped of all guns. Unfortunatly, the only way to effectively screen for mental issues is to have paperwork, and even then, you do not need a gun engineered to kill large numbers of people.

As for gun collectors, they are protected from seizure of their collections, becauuse doing so would be enacting ex post facto legislation.

[Dismas]

I'd like to clear up a miscommunication, when I said military I didn't mean the power structure, I meant the majority of the servicemen, the grunts. If they aren't behind a coup, they are all well trained and well armed to crush it.

As for the argument saying that armed school employee's could have stopped the violence at an early stage, there's a quandry to that. For any of the adults to have shot the threat, they would have had to have quick, easy access to a firearm. But surely having easily accessed firearms at a school full of children is not something you advocate? I've seen fellows fresh out of firearms training do something stupid that injured people.

You and I agree on two things. Mentally unstable people should not have access to guns, and the stable people should not be stripped of all guns. Unfortunatly, the only way to effectively screen for mental issues is to have paperwork, and even then, you do not need a gun engineered to kill large numbers of people.

As for gun collectors, they are protected from seizure of their collections, becauuse doing so would be enacting ex post facto legislation.

Ah, I understand. The thing is, the military (being the grunts and average joes) might not back the coup. I hate to mention Hitler multiple times, but how likely was it for a member of his military to depart and help civilians? I'm sure it happened once or twice, but the majority stayed loyal. Unfortunately, people aren't going to have their common sense in situations like this. It depends, the grunts may back a movement, but I would feel much safer if everyone were armed (grunts included). As for teacher's having easy access to a firearm, why not?

They make small lock-boxes that are easy to open and they are very much secure. It would take about 5 seconds to open the box and grab a small pistol. At the same time, it could save lives. In my previous post, I provided a link regarding the Guardian Plan, which is a decent idea. Some schools have done it. Kids don't need to know the teacher has a gun either. I think the best way to combat situations like these is to have more people armed. I wouldn't expect the government to respect collectors.