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+---- Thread: Your views on Gun Rights? (/Thread-Your-views-on-Gun-Rights)
RE: Your views on Gun Rights? - Four - 08-26-2013
(08-26-2013, 07:55 AM)Harvey Wrote:(08-26-2013, 07:49 AM)Four Wrote:(08-26-2013, 06:23 AM)Harvey Wrote: If this is true, why have there been zero mass shootings in Australia since gun control was introduced? Do you not think our criminals are capable of getting guns off dealers?
Also, you have a much smaller population than the U.S. so there wont be as many dealers, criminals, nor shooters.
Our smaller population doesn't have much to do with it IMO. The number of crooks in relation to normal society will be relatively proportional in both the US and AUS. If this is the case, the US stand to save MORE lives by introducing gun control.
Haven't you browsed through that e-book I have linked the other night?
In multiple cases, crime done with a gun has heavily increased since Australia instituted a ban. And no, it would not necessarily save more lives. Whether you've read about it, or even if it hasn't been reported on, in many cases guns happen to actually save lives. For instance in house and store robberies guns are often used to scare off the criminal. Hell even if they kill him/her that's fine because they're killing one of the minority who misuse these amazing gadgets.
RE: Your views on Gun Rights? - Harvey - 08-26-2013
(08-26-2013, 08:12 AM)Four Wrote:(08-26-2013, 07:55 AM)Harvey Wrote:(08-26-2013, 07:49 AM)Four Wrote: Also, you have a much smaller population than the U.S. so there wont be as many dealers, criminals, nor shooters.
Our smaller population doesn't have much to do with it IMO. The number of crooks in relation to normal society will be relatively proportional in both the US and AUS. If this is the case, the US stand to save MORE lives by introducing gun control.
Haven't you browsed through that e-book I have linked the other night?
In multiple cases, crime done with a gun has heavily increased since Australia instituted a ban. And no, it would not necessarily save more lives. Whether you've read about it, or even if it hasn't been reported on, in many cases guns happen to actually save lives. For instance in house and store robberies guns are often used to scare off the criminal. Hell even if they kill him/her that's fine because they're killing one of the minority who misuse these amazing gadgets.
Quote:In multiple cases, crime done with a gun has heavily increased since Australia instituted a ban.
This statement doesn't really make sense. How can this be in multiple cases? How can you say that more people die via shooting in Australia today than they did before 1996?
The evidence supporting my theory of more guns: more dead people is far more substantial than yours.
RE: Your views on Gun Rights? - Four - 08-26-2013
(08-26-2013, 08:28 AM)Harvey Wrote:(08-26-2013, 08:12 AM)Four Wrote:(08-26-2013, 07:55 AM)Harvey Wrote: Our smaller population doesn't have much to do with it IMO. The number of crooks in relation to normal society will be relatively proportional in both the US and AUS. If this is the case, the US stand to save MORE lives by introducing gun control.
Haven't you browsed through that e-book I have linked the other night?
In multiple cases, crime done with a gun has heavily increased since Australia instituted a ban. And no, it would not necessarily save more lives. Whether you've read about it, or even if it hasn't been reported on, in many cases guns happen to actually save lives. For instance in house and store robberies guns are often used to scare off the criminal. Hell even if they kill him/her that's fine because they're killing one of the minority who misuse these amazing gadgets.
Quote:In multiple cases, crime done with a gun has heavily increased since Australia instituted a ban.
This statement doesn't really make sense. How can this be in multiple cases? How can you say that more people die via shooting in Australia today than they did before 1996?
The evidence supporting my theory of more guns: more dead people is far more substantial than yours.
By multiple cases I meant in certain "categories" if I may call it that. (Ex. Armed robbery, murder, etc.) I've never stated that more people have died after that specific ban, but rather that gun-related crime has increased. Why is this I wonder? It is most likely due to the fact that civilians in charge of shops cannot arm themselves with weapons. making it much easier for the criminal to rob the store. Think about it this way, lets say I was robbing your candy store. I come in concealing a gun, but still showing that you are being robbed, when nobody else is in the shop. You reach under your register and threaten me to leave with a knife or some other weapon. This is when I show my handgun and aim it at your head. You're left almost defenseless and I make off with the money. If this was in America you can have pulled out a gun and I would most likely flee. If I didn't, maybe I would be shot. Who cares if I die? I'm just a pathetic criminal robbing 'ole Harvey's candy shop. More guns obviously equals more death and I haven't gone against that statement. The thing I'm trying to get into your head is your leaving everyday people defenseless to those who would obtain the guns illegally. This would then spike the crime, just as it's doing in Australia.
For the sake of this debate however lets say that all guns are completely gone and nobody can obtain them through any means. (Not even robbing military plants or anything). This would then result in a different type of weapons being used. A crossbow? Knives? Bombs/ small explosives? -You can make explosives at home ffs. Many are banned but that doesn't stop anything. As long as there is still people there will always be violence. Banning guns will just open the oppurtunity for something else to take it's place.
RE: Your views on Gun Rights? - Harvey - 08-26-2013
(08-26-2013, 08:42 AM)Four Wrote:(08-26-2013, 08:28 AM)Harvey Wrote:Who cares if I die? I'm just a pathetic criminal robbing 'ole Harvey's candy shop. More guns obviously equals more death and I haven't gone against that statement. The thing I'm trying to get into your head is your leaving everyday people defenseless to those who would obtain the guns illegally. This would then spike the crime, just as it's doing in Australia.(08-26-2013, 08:12 AM)Four Wrote: Haven't you browsed through that e-book I have linked the other night?
In multiple cases, crime done with a gun has heavily increased since Australia instituted a ban. And no, it would not necessarily save more lives. Whether you've read about it, or even if it hasn't been reported on, in many cases guns happen to actually save lives. For instance in house and store robberies guns are often used to scare off the criminal. Hell even if they kill him/her that's fine because they're killing one of the minority who misuse these amazing gadgets.
Quote:In multiple cases, crime done with a gun has heavily increased since Australia instituted a ban.
This statement doesn't really make sense. How can this be in multiple cases? How can you say that more people die via shooting in Australia today than they did before 1996?
The evidence supporting my theory of more guns: more dead people is far more substantial than yours.
For the sake of this debate however lets say that all guns are completely gone and nobody can obtain them through any means. (Not even robbing military plants or anything). This would then result in a different type of weapons being used. A crossbow? Knives? Bombs/ small explosives? -You can make explosives at home ffs. Many are banned but that doesn't stop anything. As long as there is still people there will always be violence. Banning guns will just open the oppurtunity for something else to take it's place.
Scenario B. I walk into your candy shop with, aim a gun to your head, you pull out a shot gun, I panic and blow your prefrontal cortex into the back room. Take the money and walk out.
Quote:A crossbow? Knives? Bombs/ small explosives? -You can make explosives at home ffs.
As I said to Skizzy, these will never replace semi-automatic assault rifles. It hasn't been an issue here either.
RE: Your views on Gun Rights? - Four - 08-26-2013
(08-26-2013, 09:14 AM)Harvey Wrote:(08-26-2013, 08:42 AM)Four Wrote:(08-26-2013, 08:28 AM)Harvey Wrote: This statement doesn't really make sense. How can this be in multiple cases? How can you say that more people die via shooting in Australia today than they did before 1996?Who cares if I die? I'm just a pathetic criminal robbing 'ole Harvey's candy shop. More guns obviously equals more death and I haven't gone against that statement. The thing I'm trying to get into your head is your leaving everyday people defenseless to those who would obtain the guns illegally. This would then spike the crime, just as it's doing in Australia.
The evidence supporting my theory of more guns: more dead people is far more substantial than yours.
For the sake of this debate however lets say that all guns are completely gone and nobody can obtain them through any means. (Not even robbing military plants or anything). This would then result in a different type of weapons being used. A crossbow? Knives? Bombs/ small explosives? -You can make explosives at home ffs. Many are banned but that doesn't stop anything. As long as there is still people there will always be violence. Banning guns will just open the oppurtunity for something else to take it's place.
Scenario B. I walk into your candy shop with, aim a gun to your head, you pull out a shot gun, I panic and blow your prefrontal cortex into the back room. Take the money and walk out.
Quote:A crossbow? Knives? Bombs/ small explosives? -You can make explosives at home ffs.
As I said to Skizzy, these will never replace semi-automatic assault rifles. It hasn't been an issue here either.
It would still give me more of a chance if I had a shot gun to defend myself. I could pull out a phone and you panic thinking I'll call 911 and I die. You can just walk in to a supermarket and cause a massacre if guns were banned. At least if they're legal there will always be a slight chance of someone saving the day.
It hasn't been an issue because there is no need for it at the given time. I can easily think of a few designs or scenarios that could end up much worse than your average "mass murder." If some extreme force wiped out all the guns criminals would have to become more innovative. I already know of someone who made a crossbow that is the size of your generic pistol. It's also semi-automatic, but it only holds 3 arrows at this time. If guns ever got completely taken away there would be more inventions such as his where people have to actually get innovative, possibly resulting in much worse of weapons.
It's 430am for me. I honestly can't remember what I just wrote or anything. I'll respond and reread everything tomorrow.
RE: Your views on Gun Rights? - Harvey - 08-26-2013
Quote:You can just walk in to a supermarket and cause a massacre if guns were banned. At least if they're legal there will always be a slight chance of someone saving the day.
Let's really think about that for a second. Dude walks into a shopping center and starts spraying everyone with an assault rifle.
Quote:You can just walk in to a supermarket and cause a massacre if guns were banned.
That's the whole reason why guns should be banned, lol.
Quote:At least if they're legal there will always be a slight chance of someone saving the day.
How? You think people walk around shopping centers wielding assault rifles to defend from people busy massacring people? If the shooter has position, he's going to see anyone pull out a pistol and end them immediately before he continues to kill everyone else.
RE: Your views on Gun Rights? - Four - 08-26-2013
(08-26-2013, 09:43 AM)Harvey Wrote:Quote:You can just walk in to a supermarket and cause a massacre if guns were banned. At least if they're legal there will always be a slight chance of someone saving the day.
Let's really think about that for a second. Dude walks into a shopping center and starts spraying everyone with an assault rifle.
Quote:You can just walk in to a supermarket and cause a massacre if guns were banned.
That's the whole reason why guns should be banned, lol.
Quote:At least if they're legal there will always be a slight chance of someone saving the day.
How? You think people walk around shopping centers wielding assault rifles to defend from people busy massacring people? If the shooter has position, he's going to see anyone pull out a pistol and end them immediately before he continues to kill everyone else.
"The whole reason why guns should be banned."
What you still fail to realize is that they can easily buy an illegal weapon making the ban useless.
The US had a an assault rifle but, but it didn't stop the North Hollywood Shootout from happening. Quite frankly, criminals will always get their hands on the weapons they need. The only use a gun ban would do is take it out of the hands of everyday citizens, some who use them for everyday things. Unlike Australia, we're not going to obey an oppressive government. If they become too oppressive people will rebel, it's how we became a country in the first place.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,..." - Declaration of Rights
Also, you Aussies always think that just because it worked there it will work here. Your Gov. only has 22 million people to control as opposed to our 300 million. It would do more harm than good, because everyone wouldn't want to give up their guns. Finally, you only have one argument against gun rights "More guns = More death." This is true with almost anything substituted for guns. "More people = more death, more knives, explosives, and anything else = more death." Even if guns became banned there would still be gun massacres, nothing can stop violence unless someone stops the person before he can commit to it.
RE: Your views on Gun Rights? - Cake - 08-26-2013
I thought this debate was over but oh well this shall be interesting to watch
(08-26-2013, 09:43 AM)Harvey Wrote:You obviously don't know how this works at all. The point of the citizens of the US is having guns to protect them selves. If everyone carried and someone came into a grocery store and tried to start lighting people up he'd be dead within seconds from another citizen carrying. DUH HURRRQuote:You can just walk in to a supermarket and cause a massacre if guns were banned. At least if they're legal there will always be a slight chance of someone saving the day.
Let's really think about that for a second. Dude walks into a shopping center and starts spraying everyone with an assault rifle.
Quote:You can just walk in to a supermarket and cause a massacre if guns were banned.
That's the whole reason why guns should be banned, lol.
Quote:At least if they're legal there will always be a slight chance of someone saving the day.
How? You think people walk around shopping centers wielding assault rifles to defend from people busy massacring people? If the shooter has position, he's going to see anyone pull out a pistol and end them immediately before he continues to kill everyone else.
RE: Your views on Gun Rights? - Kureo - 08-26-2013
I don't see the point carry a gun for protection, let alone a right to it. If no one were allowed to carry a gun, then there wouldn't be a need for protection against people with guns. Of course people will still buy them illegally, but if someone were to take a gun and point it at a robber, chance is that it would have started a gunfire which might have cost people more than a little cash that can be replaced.
RE: Your views on Gun Rights? - Four - 08-26-2013
(08-26-2013, 09:46 PM)Neriou Wrote: I don't see the point carry a gun for protection, let alone a right to it. If no one were allowed to carry a gun, then there wouldn't be a need for protection against people with guns. Of course people will still buy them illegally, but if someone were to take a gun and point it at a robber, chance is that it would have started a gunfire which might have cost people more than a little cash that can be replaced.
But those who buy them illegally can just walk down the street and slaughter people.
None of you people realize that the US is different from your countries.