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+---- Thread: Pedophilia (/Thread-Pedophilia)
RE: Pedophilia - Oni - 02-13-2014
(02-13-2014, 08:29 AM)Satan Wrote: I was legitimately asking a question. Did not mean for it to come off as being incredulous.
I do know it is a disorder, but to my knowledge there hasn't been a rehabilitation program, otherwise I could see a system with slightly reduced jail time as long as they are rehabilitated properly.
However, if they don't do said rehabilitation, their sentence does need to be increased, for the safety of children.
Letting them out 5 years later, as opposed to 20 years later won't change a thing. Not only that, but the American prison system would make them a worse person.
RE: Pedophilia - Mom - 02-13-2014
(02-13-2014, 08:29 AM)Satan Wrote: I was legitimately asking a question. Did not mean for it to come off as being incredulous.
I do know it is a disorder, but to my knowledge there hasn't been a rehabilitation program, otherwise I could see a system with slightly reduced jail time as long as they are rehabilitated properly.
However, if they don't do said rehabilitation, their sentence does need to be increased, for the safety of children.
And that was a legitimate answer. We don't truly know since research on such a thing is kept on the sidelines, especially since the moral standings are "That's so fucking horrible they shouldn't even be considered humans anymore". So we throw them in prison and wait to see if they rot.
(02-13-2014, 08:28 AM)Oni Wrote: The same way you'd rehabilitate one of those bloody homosexuals.
Spoiler:
That's a joke, of course.
Dr. Cantor recommended possibly giving them something that'd kill their sex-drive or lower the amount of urges they have. I think it's possible, but won't be easy to do.
I'm offended. I'm certainly not bloody.
(02-13-2014, 08:31 AM)Oni Wrote: Letting them out 5 years later, as opposed to 20 years later won't change a thing. Not only that, but the American prison system would make them a worse person.
Aye. If a man kills another man, and is thrown in a horrible place where everyone has killed another man... Well I mean come on, you don't exactly make a miraculous change of heart 100% of the time.
RE: Pedophilia - Satan - 02-13-2014
(02-13-2014, 08:31 AM)Oni Wrote: Letting them out 5 years later, as opposed to 20 years later won't change a thing. Not only that, but the American prison system would make them a worse person.
Which gets into another topic entirely, reformation of America's prison systems and how their run.
I'll keep my beliefs on that short, but basically my view is until someone truly feels remorse and regret for their crime, their punishment should continue, at their own expense, so that it is not a little party in prison, and it is not somewhere criminal would enjoy going. Physical labor in exchange for their housing, food, etc, would be more appropriate, and more likely teach a greater lesson.
But, that raises the question of how would one truly know if someone feels remorse.
That's a question for psychologists to answer.
So long as the cons prison was worse than any pro they could possibly have, fear would theoretically outweigh the desire to commit the crime.
(02-13-2014, 08:31 AM)Lord English Wrote: Aye. If a man kills another man, and is thrown in a horrible place where everyone has killed another man... Well I mean come on, you don't exactly make a miraculous change of heart 100% of the time.
Which is why I don't believe the population should be allowed to mingle together. The point of jail is a repercussion and punishment for committing a crime. Do you let a child, when you send them to time out, have social time? Do you let them watch television, play games, etc?
The punishment is no longer a punishment. I've heard quite often of people going to jail because it is better than their current life.
RE: Pedophilia - Mom - 02-13-2014
(02-13-2014, 08:44 AM)Satan Wrote: Which is why I don't believe the population should be allowed to mingle together. The point of jail is a repercussion and punishment for committing a crime. Do you let a child, when you send them to time out, have social time? Do you let them watch television, play games, etc?
The punishment is no longer a punishment. I've heard quite often of people going to jail because it is better than their current life.
But then I bring up the statement you made on the psychological development of a child. Punishment is viable for them because they are not finished developing and as such, that is how you pave the way for it.
Adults are not developing. They are finished. There is no road, there is no shaping.
There is REshaping. Mending. Etc.
You can't compare the mind of a child and an adult and expect it to be on the same playing field.
RE: Pedophilia - Satan - 02-13-2014
(02-13-2014, 08:49 AM)Lord English Wrote: But then I bring up the statement you made on the psychological development of a child. Punishment is viable for them because they are not finished developing and as such, that is how you pave the way for it.
Adults are not developing. They are finished. There is no road, there is no shaping.
There is REshaping. Mending. Etc.
You can't compare the mind of a child and an adult and expect it to be on the same playing field.
With the thought of reshaping, mending, what is allowing prison mates to intermingle reshaping them to be? They are surrounded by criminals like themselves, having conversations, telling stories, and in the case of gangs, plotting further crimes.
Same with television, you cannot reshape something unless it can be taught, unless you are implying that humans are so easily bent around that they are basically putty to fill a specified mold. In which case, do that for pedophiles as rehabilitation.
By giving prisoners access to entertainment, people like themselves, and everything else, you are then giving them a fun time. And by saying that the "time out" type comparison I made wouldn't work because their adults, have an adult sit alone in a prison cell, no contact beyond guards, and tell me just how much fun he has, and how much he wants to stay in that same place.
The reason you have repeat offenders is because 1, no rehabilitation required, 2, they get positive reinforcement from other prisoners for their crimes.
RE: Pedophilia - Mom - 02-13-2014
(02-13-2014, 08:59 AM)Satan Wrote: With the thought of reshaping, mending, what is allowing prison mates to intermingle reshaping them to be? They are surrounded by criminals like themselves, having conversations, telling stories, and in the case of gangs, plotting further crimes.
Same with television, you cannot reshape something unless it can be taught, unless you are implying that humans are so easily bent around that they are basically putty to fill a specified mold. In which case, do that for pedophiles as rehabilitation.
By giving prisoners access to entertainment, people like themselves, and everything else, you are then giving them a fun time. And by saying that the "time out" type comparison I made wouldn't work because their adults, have an adult sit alone in a prison cell, no contact beyond guards, and tell me just how much fun he has, and how much he wants to stay in that same place.
The reason you have repeat offenders is because 1, no rehabilitation required, 2, they get positive reinforcement from other prisoners for their crimes.
With the exception of the times outs, that's... The point I'm trying to make.
Are we on different wavelengths here? I am against immediate imprisonment without choice of rehabilitation, just so we're clear.
RE: Pedophilia - Satan - 02-13-2014
(02-13-2014, 09:05 AM)Lord English Wrote: With the exception of the times outs, that's... The point I'm trying to make.
Are we on different wavelengths here? I am against immediate imprisonment without choice of rehabilitation, just so we're clear.
I was using time out as an example.
& What I am saying is making rehabilitation required at their expense. Make everything at their own expense, minus what physical conditions they may have that would impede that.
Not allow them contact with other prisoners, not allow them entertainment.
RE: Pedophilia - Mom - 02-13-2014
(02-13-2014, 09:15 AM)Satan Wrote: I was using time out as an example.
& What I am saying is making rehabilitation required at their expense. Make everything at their own expense, minus what physical conditions they may have that would impede that.
Not allow them contact with other prisoners, not allow them entertainment.
Well let's get a few things straight here:
1/ If, again, it is classified as a psychological disorder, then you're trying to impose a double standard, and let's be honest, when are those considered "Right"? Oh, yeah, when we want to. Not when it truly applies to the concept of right or wrong.
2/ Believe me, throwing them into prison to meet other prisoners is NOT entertainment.
Clearly you don't know much about prisons, not enough to know that prisoners also look down on pedophilia and will beat you to an inch from death for it.
3/ Do you only survive off TV? You make it sound like entertainment is some form of thing that will cause us to immediately eat our own heart out if we spend longer than a few weeks without it. The Amish must be falling like flies.
4/ You seem obsessed with punishment. Why you consider it an absolute requirement, and not to mention that they're rather lax anyways for something you seem to have fervor about, is a mystery to me.
RE: Pedophilia - Satan - 02-13-2014
(02-13-2014, 09:21 AM)Lord English Wrote: Well let's get a few things straight here:
1/ If, again, it is classified as a psychological disorder, then you're trying to impose a double standard, and let's be honest, when are those considered "Right"? Oh, yeah, when we want to. Not when it truly applies to the concept of right or wrong.
2/ Believe me, throwing them into prison to meet other prisoners is NOT entertainment.
Clearly you don't know much about prisons, not enough to know that prisoners also look down on pedophilia and will beat you to an inch from death for it.
3/ Do you only survive off TV? You make it sound like entertainment is some form of thing that we will immediately cause us to eat our own heart out if we spend longer than a few weeks without it. The Amish must be falling like flies.
4/ You seem obsessed with punishment. Why you consider it an absolute requirement, and not to mention that they're rather lax anyways for something you seem to have fervor about, is a mystery to me.
1&2, I've already stated that pedophilia itself should not be considered a crime until it becomes the act of, or support of, abuse of children. That is when it is a crime in my mind, and even so, rehabilitation is a better option. Additionally, I have acquaintances who are self proclaimed career criminals, who have talked to me about prison, and have told me that it is nowhere near as bad as they make it out to be, because they are taken care of. Some of them express that they have repeatedly commited crimes to improve their quality of life.
3, How often do Amish commit serious crimes, really? Television is a rewarding, entertaining experience. Providing it for free to criminals is not rehabilitating, nor does it give them reason to not commit a crime again.
4, The view that isolation to reflect on your deeds, and come to terms with what you've done is a punishment rather than a form of correction is what is the problem, because punishment is what everyone is so against, and why you have pushes for prisons to be more lax.
Tying in with the end of my second statement, if a prison was to isolate and rehabilitate everyone who came through their doors, as well as offer training at the prisoner's expense, and job placement, then a prisoner would be more likely, in my opinion, to improve their own life outside of jail.
I quite honestly don't believe that having a criminal record doesn't count against you finding a job. Rehabilitating individuals would, in turn, reduce the likelihood someone is turned away because of a crime they committed, for which they served a proper sentence and was treated for. Making prisoners work and pay for their own jailing is, in my mind, fair. The current system, from what I've been taught of the US's jails, requires taxpayers to pay for a prisoner's incarceration, food, and healthcare. I may be wrong, to an extent in that aspect, but even so, that isn't fair to the taxpayer, such as myself.
RE: Pedophilia - Mom - 02-13-2014
(02-13-2014, 09:34 AM)Satan Wrote: Tying in with the end of my second statement, if a prison was to isolate and rehabilitate everyone who came through their doors, as well as offer training at the prisoner's expense, and job placement, then a prisoner would be more likely, in my opinion, to improve their own life outside of jail.
I quite honestly don't believe that having a criminal record doesn't count against you finding a job. Rehabilitating individuals would, in turn, reduce the likelihood someone is turned away because of a crime they committed, for which they served a proper sentence and was treated for. Making prisoners work and pay for their own jailing is, in my mind, fair. The current system, from what I've been taught of the US's jails, requires taxpayers to pay for a prisoner's incarceration, food, and healthcare. I may be wrong, to an extent in that aspect, but even so, that isn't fair to the taxpayer, such as myself.
Well I have sad news for you as to that you live in a society.
In this society everyone must pay a certain amount for many establishments, as you obviously know.
However, leaders of this society choose how things are done, so your view on what is fair and what is not, won't pay for these establishments.
And how would these criminals pay? At the end, when they're done with a pretty rough experience? Oh, they're in prison, I suppose we should put them into debt. Because, after all, everyone knows how much debt can improve morale and not make people run to another country! Nope! That kinda stuff never happened with regular citizens even!
Spoiler:
Taste the sarcasm.
Sidenote: "Self-proclaimed" means nothing. Something better should proclaim them as such because as much as it goes I'm a "self-proclaimed" wood expert.
Spoiler:
Not really, but you get my point.
Have they gone to prison? Have they seen it from the other side? I mean, it's only natural to know both stories right? Only knowing one only gives you a piece of information that is rather unstable and, in all likelihood, biased, because that's what humans like to do.
On a second sidenote, you're presenting a lot of opinionated information where factual would be much more suitable.
For example, you say television is a rewarding experience and good form of entertainment while I, outside of news or important national notices, consider it a cancer. Somehow I doubt I'm alone on this.