+- Sinisterly (https://sinister.ly)
+-- Forum: General (https://sinister.ly/Forum-General)
+--- Forum: The Lounge (https://sinister.ly/Forum-The-Lounge)
+---- Forum: Serious Discussion (https://sinister.ly/Forum-Serious-Discussion)
+---- Thread: Bias Gun Control Article (No TL;DR) (/Thread-Bias-Gun-Control-Article-No-TL-DR)
RE: Bias Gun Control Article (No TL;DR) - Brawler - 03-20-2015
(03-20-2015, 01:32 PM)Dyme Wrote: Wow Oni nice detective work in exposing these deceitful left-wing extremists who are trying to poison our youth!! You found a biased online article that spreads false information in order to push a political agenda? Insane!!! If you want more try checking out http://www.foxnews.com/ , you might find something else like this...
What's really depressing is that its nearly impossible to find unbiased news anymore. Both sides have deep pockets, and that's probably not going to change anytime soon.
RE: Bias Gun Control Article (No TL;DR) - Uzinero - 03-20-2015
I'm in the UK, but when I see people in the US wanting to get rid of guns and spouting anti-gun propganda, all I can think is: "Wow, what a fucking idiot." Here, guns are outlawed and you can't even have a small knife or anything for self defence when you're out. You know what it means? It means no law-abiding citizen is capable of defending themselves against all the criminals with knives/guns who can, it's completely ridiculous. Anti-Gun supporters don't seem to realize just how good they have it as a benefit of the guns protecting them.
Here is a very good infographic that shows the benefits of guns tremendously, it has several links at the bottom of it with sources for every fact posted.
![[Image: cfiOcMR.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/cfiOcMR.jpg)
RE: Bias Gun Control Article (No TL;DR) - azRAel_ - 03-23-2015
Im personally right of neutral on this matter. I think that people have a right to own guns (more of a inalienable right to self defense, regardless of the 2nd Amendment) and that with the exception of the Mass shootings (I consider those a rare category as opposed to the usual events), violence will still be perpetrated by people regardless of if they have guns or not. While I completely disagree with the left and agree with @Oni that the Articles are complete BS, my disagreements with the Right comes from the arguments they make in favor of guns.
The most common argument I hear, and the one that irritates the shit out of me, is that If somebody has a gun, they can defend themselves from anything. I know for a fact that like any tool you have to be trained again and again and again until you can dream it in your sleep before you can handle that tool. Ive seen NAVY SEALS train once and I know that those people have to fire hundreds of rounds per day before they are even considered proficient. The are woken up each night by their instructor shooting into the ceiling. The idea that anybody can hold a weapon and fire it like Chris Kyle is ridiculous and thinking that holding a gun and looking tough makes you a green beret. I think that like any tool, people have to be trained in it to operate it not only proficiently but responsibly as well. Thats what I think our country is lacking the MOST.
Note: My family was from Abadan in Iran and in 1980, Saddam Hussein Invaded the city and since there was only 400 marines (All trained in the US and UK with the SEALS AND SBS) defending the city from an entire army. The people of Abadan took arms to defend the city. They failed to hold back the invasion and most of these people (including many of my family) were killed because they had no idea how to fire arms. Out of the 400 marines less than 10 were killed. Whether its Abadan in 1981, Berlin 1945, Taliban in 2001, or VietCong in 1969, My point is, you have to be trained in a weapon to know how to operate it. And the more you are trained, the more your chances of survival. If they government wants to protect people, they need to make sure there is sufficient training before allowing them to operate it.
(03-20-2015, 04:15 PM)Brawler Wrote: What's really depressing is that its nearly impossible to find unbiased news anymore. Both sides have deep pockets, and that's probably not going to change anytime soon.
EuroNews. They don't have commentators, and you only hear their voices.
RE: Bias Gun Control Article (No TL;DR) - roger_smith - 03-23-2015
@azRAel1388 I get what you're saying, but I don't need to be Chris Kyle with my pistol to be able to protect myself. I don't need to fire hundreds of rounds a day to be proficient enough to be able to defend myself and my loved ones from those who will commit evil and violent acts against us. Obviously I need to be accurate and not fire my weapon unless I'm sure of where it will hit, but I'm not a sniper, I'm a law abiding American citizen that has every right enumerated in the constitution to keep and bear arms. Having drawn my firearm for fear of my life before, I feel I have a good understanding of how such an event can go down.
People who think gun owners are crazy nuts who can't wait for the chance to come out guns a blazin' have no idea. I never hope to relive the events that I did that day, and I hope no one ever has to either.
RE: Bias Gun Control Article (No TL;DR) - Dyme - 03-23-2015
(03-20-2015, 08:03 PM)Uzinero Wrote: Here is a very good infographic that shows the benefits of guns tremendously, it has several links at the bottom of it with sources for every fact posted.
http://i.imgur.com/cfiOcMR.jpg
I'm pretty sure this was posted here before? If you remember where please do share a link; I remember pointing out various inconsistencies and generalizations about this graphic that does a good job of representing how people make non-existing connections with real statistics in order to push a pro-gun agenda. It actually is a really good example of the same type of bias that Oni is ranting about...
RE: Bias Gun Control Article (No TL;DR) - azRAel_ - 03-23-2015
@roger_smith I am grateful that you were able to defend yourself and more happy that you dont want to relieve that day. Thats what the idea of the 2nd amendment is about. Its about citizens protecting themselves from dangers. And I agree that most gun owners are not crazy (although I question those who have never fired a gun and think that its easy to do).
I mean, maybe its more about I feel annoyed when people say they can defend themselves when they have never been in that situation (not including what happened in 1980, but most of my friends are military guys who share similar feelings; one former Vietnam veteran told me "its not if you have a gun, its can you shoot it when the time comes"), but I do think that gun education is seriously lacking in this country and that ultimately, if we want to make citizens more responsible with their weapons, they have to be educated in not only how to operate it (Not necissarily chris kyle level, granted) but how and when its supposed to be used.
RE: Bias Gun Control Article (No TL;DR) - Oni - 03-23-2015
(03-23-2015, 03:30 AM)azRAel1388 Wrote: Im personally right of neutral on this matter. I think that people have a right to own guns (more of a inalienable right to self defense, regardless of the 2nd Amendment) and that with the exception of the Mass shootings (I consider those a rare category as opposed to the usual events), violence will still be perpetrated by people regardless of if they have guns or not. While I completely disagree with the left and agree with @Oni that the Articles are complete BS, my disagreements with the Right comes from the arguments they make in favor of guns.
The most common argument I hear, and the one that irritates the shit out of me, is that If somebody has a gun, they can defend themselves from anything. I know for a fact that like any tool you have to be trained again and again and again until you can dream it in your sleep before you can handle that tool. Ive seen NAVY SEALS train once and I know that those people have to fire hundreds of rounds per day before they are even considered proficient. The are woken up each night by their instructor shooting into the ceiling. The idea that anybody can hold a weapon and fire it like Chris Kyle is ridiculous and thinking that holding a gun and looking tough makes you a green beret. I think that like any tool, people have to be trained in it to operate it not only proficiently but responsibly as well. Thats what I think our country is lacking the MOST.
Note: My family was from Abadan in Iran and in 1980, Saddam Hussein Invaded the city and since there was only 400 marines (All trained in the US and UK with the SEALS AND SBS) defending the city from an entire army. The people of Abadan took arms to defend the city. They failed to hold back the invasion and most of these people (including many of my family) were killed because they had no idea how to fire arms. Out of the 400 marines less than 10 were killed. Whether its Abadan in 1981, Berlin 1945, Taliban in 2001, or VietCong in 1969, My point is, you have to be trained in a weapon to know how to operate it. And the more you are trained, the more your chances of survival. If they government wants to protect people, they need to make sure there is sufficient training before allowing them to operate it.
EuroNews. They don't have commentators, and you only hear their voices.
I can't claim to be more proficient than veterans - even in the slightest bit. However, when I discuss firearms, I do so knowing that I have shot them for over a decade.
A firearm is nothing but a tool, like a trowel. A farmer that knows how to use a trowel will likely fare better than a farmer that doesn't. The same applies for guns. A person that knows how to use a gun will likely fare better than a person that doesn't.
The beautiful thing about guns (and tools in general) is that you can become more proficient with them. Some people are more experienced and more qualified to use them. I'd argue that the more experienced you are with firearms, the better equipped you are to protect yourself.
A gun might not protect a person on its own, but it gives that person more power to protect themselves. In a world where guns are present, it's foolish to take away the right to own such a basic tool.
RE: Bias Gun Control Article (No TL;DR) - azRAel_ - 03-23-2015
@Oni, Exactly! Its a tool just like a Car can be a tool or a death trap. If you have proper training, then you can operate that tool but if you dont, the likely hood that you'll do something stupid is increased. Same thing with a Welding Torch (I know some welding, im not a Steel Town girl on a Saturday Night looking for the time of her life, but im okay I guess), I wouldnt trust anybody who doesnt have knowledge of how its used to handle it like I can. And thats my whole point, not only can your learn to operate it but you become more responsible as well with those tools. And yes! The more experience you have, the more proficient you become. Thats why banning them is so fucking stupid (Except for people under 18, I dont believe they have proper judgement skills to operate weapons unless they have parental supervision) *No offense to anybody under 18, i was there not too long ago.
I know that a gun alone cannot protect somebody but I do know that the majority of gun owners probably do not get enough training with guns to properly handle them (I think that its fair to say that most people just keep the guns under their beds hoping nothing bad will ever happen). And ive seen first timers at the shooting range fireing into the air because they never heard of recoil. This is where the problem is in my opinion. If you want people to be more responsible with weapons, they need more education, not restrictions.
RE: Bias Gun Control Article (No TL;DR) - Eclipse - 03-23-2015
>ban guns
>death by guns decrease
>mfw people are surprised
kek'd
RE: Bias Gun Control Article (No TL;DR) - Oni - 03-23-2015
(03-23-2015, 09:20 PM)Eclipse Wrote: >ban guns
>death by guns decrease
>mfw people are surprised
kek'd
Read:
http://www.loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/australia.php