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+--- Forum: Coding (https://sinister.ly/Forum-Coding--71)
+--- Thread: Maybe you want to read this before programming (/Thread-Maybe-you-want-to-read-this-before-programming)
RE: Maybe you want to read this before programming - Ligeti - 02-15-2014
(02-15-2014, 11:12 PM)Dionaea Wrote: I feel that OOP is important as well. I didn't start learning with the intention of being a hacker, and so I don't mind learning things even if they may not matter to being a hacker. I want to have a general grasp of being a programmer and also being a good penetration tester.
Of course OOP is important (no question about that), I didn't say to totally ignore it, but for beginners, could you name me/us one thing that you can do using OOP that you can't do with non-OOP programming? And I am talking about practical things (not academic and theories)... and I am talking about (sockets, sniffers, trojans... etc.)
And yes let's not forget that I am addressing this "speech" to beginners/programmers (I wont call them hackers... yet!) and not developers, if I was talking to about game making, OOP is the first thing to master (not just learn), but my goal here is to quench their thirst for knowledge... and more important is to sharpen their skills (by doing practical things and rehearsing)
Sorry about the long replay, I really appreciate your feedback.
Thanks
RE: Maybe you want to read this before programming - Ligeti - 02-15-2014
(02-15-2014, 11:12 PM)Dionaea Wrote: I feel that OOP is important as well. I didn't start learning with the intention of being a hacker, and so I don't mind learning things even if they may not matter to being a hacker. I want to have a general grasp of being a programmer and also being a good penetration tester.
Of course OOP is important (no question about that), I didn't say to totally ignore it, but for beginners, could you name me/us one thing that you can do using OOP that you can't do with non-OOP programming? And I am talking about practical things (not academic and theories)... and I am talking about (sockets, sniffers, trojans... etc.)
And yes let's not forget that I am addressing this "speech" to beginners/programmers (I wont call them hackers... yet!) and not developers, if I was talking to about game making, OOP is the first thing to master (not just learn), but my goal here is to quench their thirst for knowledge... and more important is to sharpen their skills (by doing practical things and rehearsing)
Sorry about the long replay, I really appreciate your feedback.
Thanks
RE: Maybe you want to read this before programming - Dionaea - 02-15-2014
(02-15-2014, 11:33 PM)Ligeti Wrote:Why do you think their thirst for knowledge should be quenched? Is it because a beginner might be overwhelmed by all the languages and want to learn everything, maybe?(02-15-2014, 11:12 PM)Dionaea Wrote: I feel that OOP is important as well. I didn't start learning with the intention of being a hacker, and so I don't mind learning things even if they may not matter to being a hacker. I want to have a general grasp of being a programmer and also being a good penetration tester.
Of course OOP is important (no question about that), I didn't say to totally ignore it, but for beginners, could you name me/us one thing that you can do using OOP that you can't do with non-OOP programming? And I am talking about practical things (not academic and theories)... and I am talking about (sockets, sniffers, trojans... etc.)
And yes let's not forget that I am addressing this "speech" to beginners/programmers (I wont call them hackers... yet!) and not developers, if I was talking to about game making, OOP is the first thing to master (not just learn), but my goal here is to quench their thirst for knowledge... and more important is to sharpen their skills (by doing practical things and rehearsing)
Sorry about the long replay, I really appreciate your feedback.
Thanks
RE: Maybe you want to read this before programming - Dionaea - 02-15-2014
(02-15-2014, 11:33 PM)Ligeti Wrote:Why do you think their thirst for knowledge should be quenched? Is it because a beginner might be overwhelmed by all the languages and want to learn everything, maybe?(02-15-2014, 11:12 PM)Dionaea Wrote: I feel that OOP is important as well. I didn't start learning with the intention of being a hacker, and so I don't mind learning things even if they may not matter to being a hacker. I want to have a general grasp of being a programmer and also being a good penetration tester.
Of course OOP is important (no question about that), I didn't say to totally ignore it, but for beginners, could you name me/us one thing that you can do using OOP that you can't do with non-OOP programming? And I am talking about practical things (not academic and theories)... and I am talking about (sockets, sniffers, trojans... etc.)
And yes let's not forget that I am addressing this "speech" to beginners/programmers (I wont call them hackers... yet!) and not developers, if I was talking to about game making, OOP is the first thing to master (not just learn), but my goal here is to quench their thirst for knowledge... and more important is to sharpen their skills (by doing practical things and rehearsing)
Sorry about the long replay, I really appreciate your feedback.
Thanks
RE: Maybe you want to read this before programming - Ligeti - 02-16-2014
(02-15-2014, 11:36 PM)Dionaea Wrote: Why do you think their thirst for knowledge should be quenched? Is it because a beginner might be overwhelmed by all the languages and want to learn everything, maybe?
They have to see something practical, and something they can use in real life...
If I want to teach someone something I won't use modern systems (classes, schedules and stupid exams) I will have to understand their needs... what do they need to know now this minute and why!
I think -and hope- that you'll agree with me when I say that most of the beginners learn programming because they want to be or hackers or game developers (there is no third), which of course is not something wrong, so... teaching should be related to these topics.
"Born a hacker" people get bored fast... so, they have to get results fast!
Thanks
Quote:"You bet your ass we're all alike... we've been spoon-fed baby food at school when we hungered for steak... the bits of meat that you did let slip through were pre-chewed and tasteless. We've been dominated by sadists, or ignored by the apathetic. The few that had something to teach found us will-ing pupils, but those few are like drops of water in the desert." -- The Mentor 1986
RE: Maybe you want to read this before programming - Ligeti - 02-16-2014
(02-15-2014, 11:36 PM)Dionaea Wrote: Why do you think their thirst for knowledge should be quenched? Is it because a beginner might be overwhelmed by all the languages and want to learn everything, maybe?
They have to see something practical, and something they can use in real life...
If I want to teach someone something I won't use modern systems (classes, schedules and stupid exams) I will have to understand their needs... what do they need to know now this minute and why!
I think -and hope- that you'll agree with me when I say that most of the beginners learn programming because they want to be or hackers or game developers (there is no third), which of course is not something wrong, so... teaching should be related to these topics.
"Born a hacker" people get bored fast... so, they have to get results fast!
Thanks
Quote:"You bet your ass we're all alike... we've been spoon-fed baby food at school when we hungered for steak... the bits of meat that you did let slip through were pre-chewed and tasteless. We've been dominated by sadists, or ignored by the apathetic. The few that had something to teach found us will-ing pupils, but those few are like drops of water in the desert." -- The Mentor 1986
RE: Maybe you want to read this before programming - Deque - 02-21-2014
Hi Ligeti.
That's probably a help for someone who needs guidance, because he hasn't found his interests yet.
But while you make clear that hacking is not only "it security", the entire rest of your post only discusses that narrow spot in the hacking field. I probably build up other expectations with that beginning.
However, I think it may help the really lost people. Thanks for contributing to HC.
Deque
RE: Maybe you want to read this before programming - Deque - 02-21-2014
Hi Ligeti.
That's probably a help for someone who needs guidance, because he hasn't found his interests yet.
But while you make clear that hacking is not only "it security", the entire rest of your post only discusses that narrow spot in the hacking field. I probably build up other expectations with that beginning.
However, I think it may help the really lost people. Thanks for contributing to HC.
Deque
RE: Maybe you want to read this before programming - Ligeti - 02-21-2014
(02-21-2014, 08:10 AM)Deque Wrote: Hi Ligeti.
That's probably a help for someone who needs guidance, because he hasn't found his interests yet.
But while you make clear that hacking is not only "it security", the entire rest of your post only discusses that narrow spot in the hacking field. I probably build up other expectations with that beginning.
However, I think it may help the really lost people. Thanks for contributing to HC.
Deque
Thank you for your feedback, and yes you are right, I am targeting IT folks (naturally), and again you are absolutly right, I am talking to the totally lost people!
Thank you for the feedbak, I really appreciated
RE: Maybe you want to read this before programming - Ligeti - 02-21-2014
(02-21-2014, 08:10 AM)Deque Wrote: Hi Ligeti.
That's probably a help for someone who needs guidance, because he hasn't found his interests yet.
But while you make clear that hacking is not only "it security", the entire rest of your post only discusses that narrow spot in the hacking field. I probably build up other expectations with that beginning.
However, I think it may help the really lost people. Thanks for contributing to HC.
Deque
Thank you for your feedback, and yes you are right, I am targeting IT folks (naturally), and again you are absolutly right, I am talking to the totally lost people!
Thank you for the feedbak, I really appreciated