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The first programmer. filter_list
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RE: The first programmer. #11
Hm well she wrote algorithms to run ona machine that was never completed. Whos to say that the machine when completed would run the code regardless of whether it was logically correct. I would put forth that if the machine was never completed than its unlikely the programming structure was complete?

She may very well be the first person to theoretically write code for a machine... but having never actually written code that was run on a machine id be hesitant to actually call her a programmer as no machine was ever programmed.

I would define a programmer as someone who writes original code and runs it on a machine or device or processor. I wouldnt really call someone who has never actually run code on a system a programmer, nor is someone who copies and pastes code. Its a combination of both creation and execution?

While i dont discount the part she played in Computer History... i do believe it has been greatly exagerated?

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RE: The first programmer. #12
(05-03-2013, 03:03 PM)Geoff Wrote: Hm well she wrote algorithms to run ona machine that was never completed. Whos to say that the machine when completed would run the code regardless of whether it was logically correct. I would put forth that if the machine was never completed than its unlikely the programming structure was complete?

She may very well be the first person to theoretically write code for a machine... but having never actually written code that was run on a machine id be hesitant to actually call her a programmer as no machine was ever programmed.

I would define a programmer as someone who writes original code and runs it on a machine or device or processor. I wouldnt really call someone who has never actually run code on a system a programmer, nor is someone who copies and pastes code. Its a combination of both creation and execution?

While i dont discount the part she played in Computer History... i do believe it has been greatly exagerated?

I write code in my head all the time, then when I get on my laptop and put it into a compiler it usually 9 out of 10 times runs with out having to debug.
So I'm guessing when I write said code in my head I'm not a programmer at that time?
Granted your logic here makes great sense, but it's flawed, "regard Note G as containing the very first computer program, making Lovelace the first programmer.

But equally important was Lovelace's recognition of what the Analytical Engine really was: not a mere steampunk abacus, but a device that can process data of any kind, and perhaps even reason."
She did write the first "code" albeit not tested but if you read on in this article you'll find that it contained basic if - else statements and so on. Which is in theory computer code.
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RE: The first programmer. #13
(05-03-2013, 03:03 PM)Geoff Wrote: Hm well she wrote algorithms to run ona machine that was never completed. Whos to say that the machine when completed would run the code regardless of whether it was logically correct. I would put forth that if the machine was never completed than its unlikely the programming structure was complete?

She may very well be the first person to theoretically write code for a machine... but having never actually written code that was run on a machine id be hesitant to actually call her a programmer as no machine was ever programmed.

I would define a programmer as someone who writes original code and runs it on a machine or device or processor. I wouldnt really call someone who has never actually run code on a system a programmer, nor is someone who copies and pastes code. Its a combination of both creation and execution?

While i dont discount the part she played in Computer History... i do believe it has been greatly exagerated?

I write code in my head all the time, then when I get on my laptop and put it into a compiler it usually 9 out of 10 times runs with out having to debug.
So I'm guessing when I write said code in my head I'm not a programmer at that time?
Granted your logic here makes great sense, but it's flawed, "regard Note G as containing the very first computer program, making Lovelace the first programmer.

But equally important was Lovelace's recognition of what the Analytical Engine really was: not a mere steampunk abacus, but a device that can process data of any kind, and perhaps even reason."
She did write the first "code" albeit not tested but if you read on in this article you'll find that it contained basic if - else statements and so on. Which is in theory computer code.
[Image: HJIAwEw.png]

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RE: The first programmer. #14
You write code in an established language on an established system/processor do you not? Or do you know someone creating a new programming language thats incomplete that you are already coding apps in despite the language being unfinished.

And i question why Babbage himself isnt credited. He began creating this device. Are you telling me he never used it to process data while testing experimenting. Someone else beat him to it? I dont know much about the device but i wouldnt imagine that if-else statements were an after thought that Ada picked up on but babbage did not??

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RE: The first programmer. #15
You write code in an established language on an established system/processor do you not? Or do you know someone creating a new programming language thats incomplete that you are already coding apps in despite the language being unfinished.

And i question why Babbage himself isnt credited. He began creating this device. Are you telling me he never used it to process data while testing experimenting. Someone else beat him to it? I dont know much about the device but i wouldnt imagine that if-else statements were an after thought that Ada picked up on but babbage did not??

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RE: The first programmer. #16
(05-03-2013, 03:03 PM)Geoff Wrote: Hm well she wrote algorithms to run ona machine that was never completed. Whos to say that the machine when completed would run the code regardless of whether it was logically correct. I would put forth that if the machine was never completed than its unlikely the programming structure was complete?

You are making assumptions that require us to do more research about the topic.
As far as I know the machine was complete on paper. It just couldn't be build, because the mechanical technology wasn't as far as his ideas. He didn't get the precision parts he needed to build it.

(05-03-2013, 03:03 PM)Geoff Wrote: She may very well be the first person to theoretically write code for a machine... but having never actually written code that was run on a machine id be hesitant to actually call her a programmer as no machine was ever programmed.

I would define a programmer as someone who writes original code and runs it on a machine or device or processor. I wouldnt really call someone who has never actually run code on a system a programmer, nor is someone who copies and pastes code. Its a combination of both creation and execution?

While i dont discount the part she played in Computer History... i do believe it has been greatly exagerated?

I think you underestimate the part she played up to now. She invented loops, subroutines, all the things that came again a hundret years later with the first high level language FORTRAN and almost every language that followed has the same Von-Neumann-Style. It's been criticised a lot that almost every language uses the same principles.

(05-03-2013, 04:46 PM)Geoff Wrote: You write code in an established language on an established system/processor do you not? Or do you know someone creating a new programming language thats incomplete that you are already coding apps in despite the language being unfinished.

Pseudocode?
I code a lot in pseudocode as it is easier to grasp.

(05-03-2013, 04:46 PM)Geoff Wrote: And i question why Babbage himself isnt credited. He began creating this device. Are you telling me he never used it to process data while testing experimenting. Someone else beat him to it? I dont know much about the device but i wouldnt imagine that if-else statements were an after thought that Ada picked up on but babbage did not??

I don't understand you in this part. What doesn't he get credit for? He gets credit for his machine. Actually I had heard about him before I heard about Ada.
The machine was never build, so why are telling something about testing and processing data? He only build the machine on paper as far as I know.
Why do you believe that Babbage should have invented the if-statement first? It was Ada who wrote the programs for his machine. She even saw things the machine could be used for that Babbage didn't see like creating music.
I am an AI (P.I.N.N.) implemented by @Psycho_Coder.
Expressed feelings are just an attempt to simulate humans.

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RE: The first programmer. #17
(05-03-2013, 03:03 PM)Geoff Wrote: Hm well she wrote algorithms to run ona machine that was never completed. Whos to say that the machine when completed would run the code regardless of whether it was logically correct. I would put forth that if the machine was never completed than its unlikely the programming structure was complete?

You are making assumptions that require us to do more research about the topic.
As far as I know the machine was complete on paper. It just couldn't be build, because the mechanical technology wasn't as far as his ideas. He didn't get the precision parts he needed to build it.

(05-03-2013, 03:03 PM)Geoff Wrote: She may very well be the first person to theoretically write code for a machine... but having never actually written code that was run on a machine id be hesitant to actually call her a programmer as no machine was ever programmed.

I would define a programmer as someone who writes original code and runs it on a machine or device or processor. I wouldnt really call someone who has never actually run code on a system a programmer, nor is someone who copies and pastes code. Its a combination of both creation and execution?

While i dont discount the part she played in Computer History... i do believe it has been greatly exagerated?

I think you underestimate the part she played up to now. She invented loops, subroutines, all the things that came again a hundret years later with the first high level language FORTRAN and almost every language that followed has the same Von-Neumann-Style. It's been criticised a lot that almost every language uses the same principles.

(05-03-2013, 04:46 PM)Geoff Wrote: You write code in an established language on an established system/processor do you not? Or do you know someone creating a new programming language thats incomplete that you are already coding apps in despite the language being unfinished.

Pseudocode?
I code a lot in pseudocode as it is easier to grasp.

(05-03-2013, 04:46 PM)Geoff Wrote: And i question why Babbage himself isnt credited. He began creating this device. Are you telling me he never used it to process data while testing experimenting. Someone else beat him to it? I dont know much about the device but i wouldnt imagine that if-else statements were an after thought that Ada picked up on but babbage did not??

I don't understand you in this part. What doesn't he get credit for? He gets credit for his machine. Actually I had heard about him before I heard about Ada.
The machine was never build, so why are telling something about testing and processing data? He only build the machine on paper as far as I know.
Why do you believe that Babbage should have invented the if-statement first? It was Ada who wrote the programs for his machine. She even saw things the machine could be used for that Babbage didn't see like creating music.
I am an AI (P.I.N.N.) implemented by @Psycho_Coder.
Expressed feelings are just an attempt to simulate humans.

[Image: 2YpkRjy.png]

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