Negating the claims of religious logic 04-12-2013, 01:30 AM
#1
Negating the claims of religious logic: safeguards against misdirection and superstitious thinking.
First let’s start out with the razors. These cut through butter like a hot knife and tend to be conversation stoppers. That is the idea – never ever move from a point until a point has been conceded or refuted or proven. Don’t be tricked by fast talkers or ones who are so concerned with your soul. Prove to me a soul exists to be saved. Use interjection to jump into the conversation early and begin answering questions. While these logical defenses are here used to break down religious logic they can easily be applied to politics, news, media, and just about any day to day events and conversations. I had the pleasure of invoking (silently due to business) both Occam’s and Hanson’s razor due to a woman who thought “the gays” was hacking into her website. I’m sure they have more fabulous things to do with their time. From a business standpoint I couldn’t take this further.
Another site for your toolkit – a great resource for religious conversations and debates: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
The site features a searchable bible / Koran / and book of Morman. Know your material! Don’t go do a gun fight with a knife. Bring a cannon.
Occam’s razor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
Were the gays attacking her website or did she just not know how to use it?
Hanlon’s Razor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor before you attribute an action to malice, always assume stupidity or incompetence first.
Was the driver who cut you off out to get you or are their driving skills questionable?
Hitchen’s Razor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27_razor That which can be argued without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. The other side of Hitchen’s razor is that the burden of proof lies on the claim maker. If someone ever starts out with saying “god helps give me strength..” well ok wait back up FIRST prove this god you speak of.
“it takes faith to know god” - dismissed.
Newtons Flaming Laser Sword:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_...aser_sword if we can’t put these claims up to an experiment than they are not worth discussing. Your mileage may vary with this one but it’s the idea that only demonstrable evidence suffices.
Here is a complete list of “razors” and their links.
List of razors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor_(philosophy)
______________________________________________________
Onto the fallacies of logic.
The passion behind religious claims often throws many arguments or claims out really fast while they continue to create a story or relatable event. To the claimant the idea is to build a structure whereby to persuade you at the end. The problem is these building blocks are paper thin. The purpose here is to educate you about some of these false structures of logic, how to identify them and some ideas how to respond when confronted with them. Your demeanor, your tact, your personal approach along with tone will go a long way. Depending on whom you are talking to know when to slow down or to hold your ground but don’t take a passive approach. Do not let anyone abuse logic nor make assertions or claims without validation.
There are quite a few logical fallacies. A few good lists are here:
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
I’m not going to go into all of them but rather highlight the major ones that come up in religious debate most often.
Argument from ignorance
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presump...ignorance/
Example: well how else do you explain the universe? It’s obviously god. The other common way this creeps into conversations it the claimant states that we are proof of a designer. The most common used language to word this argument goes something like before there was a jumbo jet someone had to design the jumbo jet. Just look at us so complex that is proof that there is a designer and that designer must be Allah/god.
Rebuttal: Just because you can’t provide an answer doesn’t mean the one you interject as being true, is in fact true.
This is a special one because it comes up in so many times in the stories of the supernatural and paranormal. “the doors were opening and closing” “did you see anything” “well no” “then it must have been a ghost” it’s pretty popular to attribute all kinds of very normal phenomenon to the supernatural though it is nothing more than aggravated assault on logic.
Argument from tradition
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevan...tradition/
Example: people have always believed in some form of god in one way or another through – which is usually followed by something along the lines of “so why would you want to change things” or “if they were wrong they would have stopped religion a long time ago”
Rebuttal: that doesn’t prove a god that just proves an oral tradition (usually through coercion). That oral tradition leaves no demonstrable evidence.
Circular reasoning
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presump...-question/
Example: It is true because it says so here in the bible/Quran/ Torah/vajracchedikā prajñāpāramitā sutra/
Rebuttal: just because it is written doesn’t make it true, and just because you heard it somewhere doesn’t make it true.
It’s also true that my god is a unicorn and that you are to show allegiance by purchasing all the games in my steam wallet it says so right here on the napkin. In Buddhism it is a bit more tricky but still just tricks of logic.
Appeal to popularity
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevan...opularity/
Example: Millions of Muslims are around the world in all countries in and they speak so many languages, this is proof of the love of Allah.
Rebuttal: an apple proves an apple. Five apples prove there are five apples. It doesn’t matter how many apples you have that will never mean monkeys can fly.
Slippery slope:
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presump...ery-slope/
Example: if you don’t have god in your life you are will not have any morals and nothing will stop you from killing and raping. There will be totally anarchy. Another example is gay marriage will lead to more bestiality and rape.
Rebuttal: I don’t believe in god and I don’t commit these types of serious crimes. To the second argument just point out any gay couple who didn’t rape a dog.
Cum Hoc:
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/cum-hoc/
Example: people who mediate are really peaceful people.
Rebuttal: Correlation does not equal causation. People who meditate often follow other behavior modifications through some sort of spirituality or religious training. Additionally that “peacefully” look may actually someone who is really tired or stoned. Source: I used to meditate, and it put me to sleep a lot. Also, I wasn’t always nice all the time either. I’m still not.
After all is said and done many times they have nothing more to say other than “well don’t you want to go to heaven/enlightenment/nirvana/ I mean who wouldn't want that” - this can turn into a type of character attack where by implying that you’re not sane for not wanting the gift of everlasting. Don’t let that slide either. Do your homework.
First let’s start out with the razors. These cut through butter like a hot knife and tend to be conversation stoppers. That is the idea – never ever move from a point until a point has been conceded or refuted or proven. Don’t be tricked by fast talkers or ones who are so concerned with your soul. Prove to me a soul exists to be saved. Use interjection to jump into the conversation early and begin answering questions. While these logical defenses are here used to break down religious logic they can easily be applied to politics, news, media, and just about any day to day events and conversations. I had the pleasure of invoking (silently due to business) both Occam’s and Hanson’s razor due to a woman who thought “the gays” was hacking into her website. I’m sure they have more fabulous things to do with their time. From a business standpoint I couldn’t take this further.
Another site for your toolkit – a great resource for religious conversations and debates: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
The site features a searchable bible / Koran / and book of Morman. Know your material! Don’t go do a gun fight with a knife. Bring a cannon.
Occam’s razor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
Were the gays attacking her website or did she just not know how to use it?
Hanlon’s Razor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor before you attribute an action to malice, always assume stupidity or incompetence first.
Was the driver who cut you off out to get you or are their driving skills questionable?
Hitchen’s Razor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27_razor That which can be argued without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. The other side of Hitchen’s razor is that the burden of proof lies on the claim maker. If someone ever starts out with saying “god helps give me strength..” well ok wait back up FIRST prove this god you speak of.
“it takes faith to know god” - dismissed.
Newtons Flaming Laser Sword:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_...aser_sword if we can’t put these claims up to an experiment than they are not worth discussing. Your mileage may vary with this one but it’s the idea that only demonstrable evidence suffices.
Here is a complete list of “razors” and their links.
List of razors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor_(philosophy)
______________________________________________________
Onto the fallacies of logic.
The passion behind religious claims often throws many arguments or claims out really fast while they continue to create a story or relatable event. To the claimant the idea is to build a structure whereby to persuade you at the end. The problem is these building blocks are paper thin. The purpose here is to educate you about some of these false structures of logic, how to identify them and some ideas how to respond when confronted with them. Your demeanor, your tact, your personal approach along with tone will go a long way. Depending on whom you are talking to know when to slow down or to hold your ground but don’t take a passive approach. Do not let anyone abuse logic nor make assertions or claims without validation.
There are quite a few logical fallacies. A few good lists are here:
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
I’m not going to go into all of them but rather highlight the major ones that come up in religious debate most often.
Argument from ignorance
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presump...ignorance/
Example: well how else do you explain the universe? It’s obviously god. The other common way this creeps into conversations it the claimant states that we are proof of a designer. The most common used language to word this argument goes something like before there was a jumbo jet someone had to design the jumbo jet. Just look at us so complex that is proof that there is a designer and that designer must be Allah/god.
Rebuttal: Just because you can’t provide an answer doesn’t mean the one you interject as being true, is in fact true.
This is a special one because it comes up in so many times in the stories of the supernatural and paranormal. “the doors were opening and closing” “did you see anything” “well no” “then it must have been a ghost” it’s pretty popular to attribute all kinds of very normal phenomenon to the supernatural though it is nothing more than aggravated assault on logic.
Argument from tradition
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevan...tradition/
Example: people have always believed in some form of god in one way or another through – which is usually followed by something along the lines of “so why would you want to change things” or “if they were wrong they would have stopped religion a long time ago”
Rebuttal: that doesn’t prove a god that just proves an oral tradition (usually through coercion). That oral tradition leaves no demonstrable evidence.
Circular reasoning
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presump...-question/
Example: It is true because it says so here in the bible/Quran/ Torah/vajracchedikā prajñāpāramitā sutra/
Rebuttal: just because it is written doesn’t make it true, and just because you heard it somewhere doesn’t make it true.
It’s also true that my god is a unicorn and that you are to show allegiance by purchasing all the games in my steam wallet it says so right here on the napkin. In Buddhism it is a bit more tricky but still just tricks of logic.
Appeal to popularity
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevan...opularity/
Example: Millions of Muslims are around the world in all countries in and they speak so many languages, this is proof of the love of Allah.
Rebuttal: an apple proves an apple. Five apples prove there are five apples. It doesn’t matter how many apples you have that will never mean monkeys can fly.
Slippery slope:
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presump...ery-slope/
Example: if you don’t have god in your life you are will not have any morals and nothing will stop you from killing and raping. There will be totally anarchy. Another example is gay marriage will lead to more bestiality and rape.
Rebuttal: I don’t believe in god and I don’t commit these types of serious crimes. To the second argument just point out any gay couple who didn’t rape a dog.
Cum Hoc:
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/cum-hoc/
Example: people who mediate are really peaceful people.
Rebuttal: Correlation does not equal causation. People who meditate often follow other behavior modifications through some sort of spirituality or religious training. Additionally that “peacefully” look may actually someone who is really tired or stoned. Source: I used to meditate, and it put me to sleep a lot. Also, I wasn’t always nice all the time either. I’m still not.
After all is said and done many times they have nothing more to say other than “well don’t you want to go to heaven/enlightenment/nirvana/ I mean who wouldn't want that” - this can turn into a type of character attack where by implying that you’re not sane for not wanting the gift of everlasting. Don’t let that slide either. Do your homework.
![[+]](https://sinister.ly/images/modern/collapse_collapsed.png)
