[zorrophreak]

I really like electric vehicles on principal, despite my feelings about Tesla as a company, and I hope the reaction to this sort of privacy-neglecting legislative advancement leads to more DIY and open-source vehicle assembly and conversions in the electric auto world. I would rather drive than something reliant on software steering for me, but if I can't find a vehicle in the future without that feature, I would want to build something that doesn't for a number of reasons.

As long as steering goes the way it currently stands manual input should always be an option. Even some advanced self-driving cars still use "rack and pinion" steering gears which have just been electronically assisted or controlled. Because there is still a manual input that functions even when the car is off, I imagine the same will apply to future completely self driving cars for at least a good deal of time.

Going the other way though there is actually a great deal of DIY self driving platforms, most notably George Hotz (geohot)'s Comma.ai. It used the lane keep, emergency brake, and cruise control features of some newer model Toyotas and Hondas (with other makes too those just being the most fully implemented) along with a Chinese phone from a now defunct company to introduce full self driving.

[echo_blini]

I really like electric vehicles on principal, despite my feelings about Tesla as a company, and I hope the reaction to this sort of privacy-neglecting legislative advancement leads to more DIY and open-source vehicle assembly and conversions in the electric auto world. I would rather drive than something reliant on software steering for me, but if I can't find a vehicle in the future without that feature, I would want to build something that doesn't for a number of reasons.

As long as steering goes the way it currently stands manual input should always be an option. Even some advanced self-driving cars still use "rack and pinion" steering gears which have just been electronically assisted or controlled. Because there is still a manual input that functions even when the car is off, I imagine the same will apply to future completely self driving cars for at least a good deal of time.

Going the other way though there is actually a great deal of DIY self driving platforms, most notably George Hotz (geohot)'s Comma.ai. It used the lane keep, emergency brake, and cruise control features of some newer model Toyotas and Hondas (with other makes too those just being the most fully implemented) along with a Chinese phone from a now defunct company to introduce full self driving.

my concern is not that manual input will not be an option, but rather that the option for self-driving becomes too widely distributed in electric cars to avoid. I know I might sound like I'm nearing Dale Gribble paranoia, but the ability for a car to be remotely shutdown by police is enough to make me never want to buy anything with that kind of tech in it because of where that kind of control can go. If the operant must share control and ownership of their personal property with a state or company, i dont want to trust it on principle.

[zorrophreak]

I really like electric vehicles on principal, despite my feelings about Tesla as a company, and I hope the reaction to this sort of privacy-neglecting legislative advancement leads to more DIY and open-source vehicle assembly and conversions in the electric auto world. I would rather drive than something reliant on software steering for me, but if I can't find a vehicle in the future without that feature, I would want to build something that doesn't for a number of reasons.

As long as steering goes the way it currently stands manual input should always be an option. Even some advanced self-driving cars still use "rack and pinion" steering gears which have just been electronically assisted or controlled. Because there is still a manual input that functions even when the car is off, I imagine the same will apply to future completely self driving cars for at least a good deal of time.

Going the other way though there is actually a great deal of DIY self driving platforms, most notably George Hotz (geohot)'s Comma.ai. It used the lane keep, emergency brake, and cruise control features of some newer model Toyotas and Hondas (with other makes too those just being the most fully implemented) along with a Chinese phone from a now defunct company to introduce full self driving.

my concern is not that manual input will not be an option, but rather that the option for self-driving becomes too widely distributed in electric cars to avoid. I know I might sound like I'm nearing Dale Gribble paranoia, but the ability for a car to be remotely shutdown by police is enough to make me never want to buy anything with that kind of tech in it because of where that kind of control can go. If the operant must share control and ownership of their personal property with a state or company, i dont want to trust it on principle.

While I love the concept of full digital and self driving cars, I completely agree on this. I don't wanna any shared control over my car. However, many cars now-a-days have the ability for someone to take full control via the CAN bus. Add on top of that that newer Fords, Mazdas, and many other brands feature Vehicle Control over LTE where your keyfob/remote is supplemented by an app on your phone which works anywhere. One flaw in the security and that becomes millions of vehicles that can be started or unlocked without the owners permission, and that is all without trying to push the service further for shutdown or the like, that is just intended functionality by an unintended party.

[Boudica]

As long as steering goes the way it currently stands manual input should always be an option. Even some advanced self-driving cars still use "rack and pinion" steering gears which have just been electronically assisted or controlled. Because there is still a manual input that functions even when the car is off, I imagine the same will apply to future completely self driving cars for at least a good deal of time.

Going the other way though there is actually a great deal of DIY self driving platforms, most notably George Hotz (geohot)'s Comma.ai. It used the lane keep, emergency brake, and cruise control features of some newer model Toyotas and Hondas (with other makes too those just being the most fully implemented) along with a Chinese phone from a now defunct company to introduce full self driving.

my concern is not that manual input will not be an option, but rather that the option for self-driving becomes too widely distributed in electric cars to avoid. I know I might sound like I'm nearing Dale Gribble paranoia, but the ability for a car to be remotely shutdown by police is enough to make me never want to buy anything with that kind of tech in it because of where that kind of control can go. If the operant must share control and ownership of their personal property with a state or company, i dont want to trust it on principle.

While I love the concept of full digital and self driving cars, I completely agree on this. I don't wanna any shared control over my car. However, many cars now-a-days have the ability for someone to take full control via the CAN bus. Add on top of that that newer Fords, Mazdas, and many other brands feature Vehicle Control over LTE where your keyfob/remote is supplemented by an app on your phone which works anywhere. One flaw in the security and that becomes millions of vehicles that can be started or unlocked without the owners permission, and that is all without trying to push the service further for shutdown or the like, that is just intended functionality by an unintended party.

Omg THIS. I cannot fathom why anyone would want car/house/etc functionality controlled by their mobile phones. People can't even protect their personal photos from being leaked, let alone preventing something really serious.

[Spooky]

I feel kind of half and half on this. I desperately want the roads to be safer as cars are the number one killer for teens. But this also creates many other privacy problems like Jiggly said. This could be both good and bad, but will most likely follow a mostly negative approach to it as all anti privacy laws do.

[zorrophreak]

my concern is not that manual input will not be an option, but rather that the option for self-driving becomes too widely distributed in electric cars to avoid. I know I might sound like I'm nearing Dale Gribble paranoia, but the ability for a car to be remotely shutdown by police is enough to make me never want to buy anything with that kind of tech in it because of where that kind of control can go. If the operant must share control and ownership of their personal property with a state or company, i dont want to trust it on principle.

While I love the concept of full digital and self driving cars, I completely agree on this. I don't wanna any shared control over my car. However, many cars now-a-days have the ability for someone to take full control via the CAN bus. Add on top of that that newer Fords, Mazdas, and many other brands feature Vehicle Control over LTE where your keyfob/remote is supplemented by an app on your phone which works anywhere. One flaw in the security and that becomes millions of vehicles that can be started or unlocked without the owners permission, and that is all without trying to push the service further for shutdown or the like, that is just intended functionality by an unintended party.

Omg THIS. I cannot fathom why anyone would want car/house/etc functionality controlled by their mobile phones. People can't even protect their personal photos from being leaked, let alone preventing something really serious.

If people understood personal IT security a little better, or even on a completely basic level it might be a different story so.

[Boudica]

While I love the concept of full digital and self driving cars, I completely agree on this. I don't wanna any shared control over my car. However, many cars now-a-days have the ability for someone to take full control via the CAN bus. Add on top of that that newer Fords, Mazdas, and many other brands feature Vehicle Control over LTE where your keyfob/remote is supplemented by an app on your phone which works anywhere. One flaw in the security and that becomes millions of vehicles that can be started or unlocked without the owners permission, and that is all without trying to push the service further for shutdown or the like, that is just intended functionality by an unintended party.

Omg THIS. I cannot fathom why anyone would want car/house/etc functionality controlled by their mobile phones. People can't even protect their personal photos from being leaked, let alone preventing something really serious.

If people understood personal IT security a little better, or even on a completely basic level it might be a different story so.

In fairness, it would be amazing if IT based education in schools moved beyond "here's how to make a PowerPoint and here's how to use excel" and started having a required course in security.

There are so many things my younger relatives are completely unaware of, despite being part of the "tech generation". Parents sure as hell aren't going to teach kids something they don't know either.

Companies should also be better at including basic security in their inductions.