[Boudica]

This morning I was reading more news about mass shootings in America (not the only country to have them, but certainly statistically the worst among first world countries).

The inevitable topic always comes up: Gun control.

I've always felt a little confused over the logic and logistics over the more extreme measure some are wanting - Outright bans on guns.

• Murder is illegal but doesn't stop people, why would owning the wrong kind of gun stop them?
  
• How do you prevent people from having access to guns?
  
• It's not logistically possible to collect/take and melt down all guns
  
•   Many weapons cost the same or more than cars, how does the government afford to cover that cost if they were to take them away?
  
• Could taking weapons lead to people burying them in their back yards?
  
• If manufacturers were banned from selling to civilians, how would the government go about this, as that could be a massive revenue loss of businesses
  

Those are just a few of the challenges with banning guns. There are others ofc.

I feel like mass shootings are so common I don't even bat an eyelid over the death counts now, so clearly *something* has to be done. But what's the best thing to do? Do you ban guns? Do you hire more armed guards at public spaces and schools? Do you run research into the "why" this is happening and try to find solutions that way?

What do you think can be done to solve the mass shooting problem in American?

P.S. This is an open discussion of ideas and thoughts on the topic

[splindoffi]

First off I think it is a very complex problem to talk about... I don't believe in the "only" solution, but in achieving some goals that require efforts from politics to citizens.

Idk where you're writing from, I suppose you're American. here in my country "little" importance is given to this kind of news too, as they have become too "common" - to date, at least 200 shootings since the beginning of the year - and yet we're talking about people who died for nothing, so I believe this should always be relevant.

I'dike to subjectively reply to the "solutions" proposed in your last paragraph:
*banning guns... I wouldn't even know how to fully express myself, but we both know it's an utopia; I would start asking myself "do you really need an assault rifle to defend yourself? can I limit the sale of heavy weapons?"
*more armed guards in public places could prevent certain incidents, but it would open up new scenarios... (personally, I wouldn't feel so "safe" walking in places full of guards, idk I'd probably become even more anxious)
*starting from the "why?" can certainly be a starting point. these shiotings often occur because of mentally ill or economic disadvantaged people; so "can we improve support for those who suffer from certain problems?".

There is still so much to say, w lot, but I hope I have been respectful in expressing myself subjectively and not generalizing, as this is a very serious issue, especially for those who experience this reality face first.
Stay safe

[Boudica]

First off I think it is a very complex problem to talk about... I don't believe in the "only" solution, but in achieving some goals that require efforts from politics to citizens.

Idk where you're writing from, I suppose you're American. here in my country "little" importance is given to this kind of news too, as they have become too "common" - to date, at least 200 shootings since the beginning of the year - and yet we're talking about people who died for nothing, so I believe this should always be relevant.

I'dike to subjectively reply to the "solutions" proposed in your last paragraph:
*banning guns... I wouldn't even know how to fully express myself, but we both know it's an utopia; I would start asking myself "do you really need an assault rifle to defend yourself? can I limit the sale of heavy weapons?"
*more armed guards in public places could prevent certain incidents, but it would open up new scenarios... (personally, I wouldn't feel so "safe" walking in places full of guards, idk I'd probably become even more anxious)
*starting from the "why?" can certainly be a starting point. these shiotings often occur because of mentally ill or economic disadvantaged people; so "can we improve support for those who suffer from certain problems?".

There is still so much to say, w lot, but I hope I have been respectful in expressing myself subjectively and not generalizing, as this is a very serious issue, especially for those who experience this reality face first.
Stay safe

Thanks for your thoughts! I like to think of this thread as a chance to discuss some ideas, judgement free. We're not going to be the ones who make decisions or changes, but it's interesting to think about "what ifs".

For reference, I'm British, but I have spent a little time in the US. I try to be as open minded as possible, and as objective as appropriate, but I will have my own biases.

I think I used to feel the same about seeing armed guards. However, now I've flown around a lot with armed guards at most airports, and gotten to know some people who are military/police, I feel less bothered about it. Now I look at armed guards like they're normal people who are skilled/trained in something specific. If that makes sense? The familiarity made the anxiety disappear, so I wonder if that would be the case if we were used to armed guards everywhere? Then again, its America, and they're very freedom motivated, so I don't know how armed guards would impact that value for freedom. Does it invite more freedom to feel safe or less if the guards are publicly employed?

[Mr.Kurd]

I'm going to give you an Islamic solution.. in Islam it is fine to own a gun or what ever weapons you have but ( Killing others without a real reason like "He killed someone else" is Haram.

In that case either, the family will have to kill you back or forgive you.. Depends on the family and situations tho .

When these mass shooting happen, they are sending them only into jail and after sometime they come out.. Even tho, taking someones freedom can be a heavy penalty but still it doesn't make him/her scare or stop the act of "shooting" or "killing".. So when you kill the person back or cut hands if he/she was a thief .. others will remember this of course 100% and they will think twice before doing anything wrong..

In america, you have thousends of Mafias in Jail, they are growing up thier and when they come out the first thing to do is buying a new gun or weapon. You guys have to remove these kind of "viruses" around and inside you.

[splindoffi]

First off I think it is a very complex problem to talk about... I don't believe in the "only" solution, but in achieving some goals that require efforts from politics to citizens.

Idk where you're writing from, I suppose you're American. here in my country "little" importance is given to this kind of news too, as they have become too "common" - to date, at least 200 shootings since the beginning of the year - and yet we're talking about people who died for nothing, so I believe this should always be relevant.

I'dike to subjectively reply to the "solutions" proposed in your last paragraph:
*banning guns... I wouldn't even know how to fully express myself, but we both know it's an utopia; I would start asking myself "do you really need an assault rifle to defend yourself? can I limit the sale of heavy weapons?"
*more armed guards in public places could prevent certain incidents, but it would open up new scenarios... (personally, I wouldn't feel so "safe" walking in places full of guards, idk I'd probably become even more anxious)
*starting from the "why?" can certainly be a starting point. these shiotings often occur because of mentally ill or economic disadvantaged people; so "can we improve support for those who suffer from certain problems?".

There is still so much to say, w lot, but I hope I have been respectful in expressing myself subjectively and not generalizing, as this is a very serious issue, especially for those who experience this reality face first.
Stay safe

Thanks for your thoughts! I like to think of this thread as a chance to discuss some ideas, judgement free. We're not going to be the ones who make decisions or changes, but it's interesting to think about "what ifs".

For reference, I'm British, but I have spent a little time in the US. I try to be as open minded as possible, and as objective as appropriate, but I will have my own biases.

I think I used to feel the same about seeing armed guards. However, now I've flown around a lot with armed guards at most airports, and gotten to know some people who are military/police, I feel less bothered about it. Now I look at armed guards like they're normal people who are skilled/trained in something specific. If that makes sense? The familiarity made the anxiety disappear, so I wonder if that would be the case if we were used to armed guards everywhere? Then again, its America, and they're very freedom motivated, so I don't know how armed guards would impact that value for freedom. Does it invite more freedom to feel safe or less if the guards are publicly employed?

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on armed guards.

In Italy, since around 2010, the "Strade Sicure" operation has been active. This consists in deploying armed forces in order to reduce criminality in major cities.

It's a fact that these armed forces perform only a "threat to the threat" role, as they are only required to intervene in very extreme cases. However, seeing them on the street always makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.
I see them with rifles in their arms, yet I feel a little less safe cause I think, "well, if they're here, there must be a reason...am I in the wrong place?"

I'm going to give you an Islamic solution.. in Islam it is fine to own a gun or what ever weapons you have but ( Killing others without a real reason like "He killed someone else" is Haram.

In that case either, the family will have to kill you back or forgive you.. Depends on the family and situations tho .

When these mass shooting happen, they are sending them only into jail and after sometime they come out.. Even tho, taking someones freedom can be a heavy penalty but still it doesn't make him/her scare or stop the act of "shooting" or "killing".. So when you kill the person back or cut hands if he/she was a thief .. others will remember this of course 100% and they will think twice before doing anything wrong..

In america, you have thousends of Mafias in Jail, they are growing up thier and when they come out the first thing to do is buying a new gun or weapon.  You guys have to remove these kind of "viruses" around and inside you.

Thank you so much for expressing your opinion.
Personally, I do not feel to agree 100% with you, but I am sure we could discuss a lot (if it hasn't already been done before) about the usefulness of prison time as a tool for rehabilitation and social reintegration, as opposed to more severe punishments.

[Crying Wolf]

As always, I refer to how it looks in Poland, because I have no right to comment on the US.

In Poland we have a lot of blackpowder firearms (e.g. colt navy), because they do not require any permit, if you are 18yo you just go to the store and buy them.
For other firearms, you need a special permit, which is not that hard to get.
There are about 1 million guns for every 40 million people.
Most gun deaths occur in the woods, as older hunters mistake their friends for wild boars, others are suicides at the shooting range, shootings are very rare.
Poland is about 87% Christian Catholic, and the US is about 65% Catholic split between Protestants and Catholics.

Whether we are Muslim, Christian or Buddhist we must agree that our religions teach us morality.

Therefore, I believe that the cause of shootings is a lack of morality, not the fault of guns.

[Mr.Kurd]

I'm going to give you an Islamic solution.. in Islam it is fine to own a gun or what ever weapons you have but ( Killing others without a real reason like "He killed someone else" is Haram.

In that case either, the family will have to kill you back or forgive you.. Depends on the family and situations tho .

When these mass shooting happen, they are sending them only into jail and after sometime they come out.. Even tho, taking someones freedom can be a heavy penalty but still it doesn't make him/her scare or stop the act of "shooting" or "killing".. So when you kill the person back or cut hands if he/she was a thief .. others will remember this of course 100% and they will think twice before doing anything wrong..

In america, you have thousends of Mafias in Jail, they are growing up thier and when they come out the first thing to do is buying a new gun or weapon.  You guys have to remove these kind of "viruses" around and inside you.

Thank you so much for expressing your opinion.
Personally, I do not feel to agree 100% with you, but I am sure we could discuss a lot (if it hasn't already been done before) about the usefulness of prison time as a tool for rehabilitation and social reintegration, as opposed to more severe punishments.

I have a very busy schedule but if you want sure why not.. Will try to find sometime.

[splindoffi]

As always, I refer to how it looks in Poland, because I have no right to comment on the US.

In Poland we have a lot of blackpowder firearms (e.g. colt navy), because they do not require any permit, if you are 18yo you just go to the store and buy them.
For other firearms, you need a special permit, which is not that hard to get.
There are about 1 million guns for every 40 million people.
Most gun deaths occur in the woods, as older hunters mistake their friends for wild boars, others are suicides at the shooting range, shootings are very rare.
Poland is about 87% Christian Catholic, and the US is about 65% Catholic split between Protestants and Catholics.

Whether we are Muslim, Christian or Buddhist we must agree that our religions teach us morality.

Therefore, I believe that the cause of shootings is a lack of morality, not the fault of guns.

Thank you so much to both for sharing your opinions. They mean a lot to me and always give me something to think about.

First off, thanks for giving some knowledge about Poland (a place I really want to visit soon). I had no idea it was pretty easy to get a weapon there.

I'm an atheist, and I agree with you that religion can teach morality. However, I also think that secular morality plays a major role. It's something that develops, even unconsciously, as we grow up..., whether it's within our families or in our social circles.

When someone does extreme actions like the ones we're talking about, whether they're religious or not, they lose control of their moral conscience; and even before that, they let go of their inhibitions brakes, which I believe are the foundation of all human actions.

I'm going to give you an Islamic solution.. in Islam it is fine to own a gun or what ever weapons you have but ( Killing others without a real reason like "He killed someone else" is Haram.

In that case either, the family will have to kill you back or forgive you.. Depends on the family and situations tho .

When these mass shooting happen, they are sending them only into jail and after sometime they come out.. Even tho, taking someones freedom can be a heavy penalty but still it doesn't make him/her scare or stop the act of "shooting" or "killing".. So when you kill the person back or cut hands if he/she was a thief .. others will remember this of course 100% and they will think twice before doing anything wrong..

In america, you have thousends of Mafias in Jail, they are growing up thier and when they come out the first thing to do is buying a new gun or weapon.  You guys have to remove these kind of "viruses" around and inside you.

Thank you so much for expressing your opinion.
Personally, I do not feel to agree 100% with you, but I am sure we could discuss a lot (if it hasn't already been done before) about the usefulness of prison time as a tool for rehabilitation and social reintegration, as opposed to more severe punishments.

I have a very busy schedule but if you want sure why not.. Will try to find sometime.

Don't worry, we all have our things to do
Maybe in the next days I'll start a thread about this, as I'd really like to hear people's opinions about this kind of topic. I can message you if you let me, so you'll notice when I post it.

Stay safe

[Crying Wolf]

As always, I refer to how it looks in Poland, because I have no right to comment on the US.

In Poland we have a lot of blackpowder firearms (e.g. colt navy), because they do not require any permit, if you are 18yo you just go to the store and buy them.
For other firearms, you need a special permit, which is not that hard to get.
There are about 1 million guns for every 40 million people.
Most gun deaths occur in the woods, as older hunters mistake their friends for wild boars, others are suicides at the shooting range, shootings are very rare.
Poland is about 87% Christian Catholic, and the US is about 65% Catholic split between Protestants and Catholics.

Whether we are Muslim, Christian or Buddhist we must agree that our religions teach us morality.

Therefore, I believe that the cause of shootings is a lack of morality, not the fault of guns.

Thank you so much to both for sharing your opinions. They mean a lot to me and always give me something to think about.

First off, thanks for giving some knowledge about Poland (a place I really want to visit soon). I had no idea it was pretty easy to get a weapon there.

I'm an atheist, and I agree with you that religion can teach morality. However, I also think that secular morality plays a major role. It's something that develops, even unconsciously, as we grow up..., whether it's within our families or in our social circles.

When someone does extreme actions like the ones we're talking about, whether they're religious or not, they lose control of their moral conscience; and even before that, they let go of their inhibitions brakes, which I believe are the foundation of all human actions.

I agree with you that morality can develop over time without the help of religion through interaction with other people.
That's why most active shooters are very young and suffer from a lack of social interaction, because they have not been able to develop morality.
(And they had to suffer a lot in their lives)

If you ever visit Poland, you will be warmly welcomed. Maybe one day we can shoot together.

Btw.  I too am an atheist, admittedly also a Buddhist but my way of thinking is as secular as possible.

[Boudica]

Such a great variety of responses and thoughts on this thread, from morality to the purpose of the prison time.

Is prison a punishment or a means to rehabilitate? I often find myself believing it's somewhere in the middle, possibly meaning it's not effective at either.

People's sense of morals may not allow them to feel comfortable with killing people, but we have to remember: In America they do still have the death penalty.

Very interesting thoughts! It's good to get the wide variety of cultural/national perspectives too.